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Pulley change - ECU or No ECU upgrade? Newbie needs help, please.

7K views 31 replies 12 participants last post by  sergio rollerfunk 
#1 ·
I am very new to MINIs, so thank you for your patience. I have spent the last several days reading through this site and performing searches within the forums as well as on the web but still need a little help.

I will be buying a 2005 MCS and absolutely want to install a smaller pulley increase the blower's boost. I am trying to understand the differences in performance and overall effect of combining the the pulley change with an ECU upgrade.

1. As I understand it, an ECU change is NOT required with a pulley change. It this true?

2. If so, what are the negative aspects of leaving the stock programming with the new pulley?

3. Finally, any suggestions on tuners in the Los Angeles/ Orange County areas to perform the pulley change? (I am fairly mechanical, but have never performed a pulley change and don't want to feck up.)

Thank you very much. This forum has been very educational.

Lester
 
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#2 ·
I watched your question but did not see any answer yet so I reply although I do not have a 100% answer. I have tuned my MCS with a Digi-Tec kit to 210 bhp. I have a new pulley, airfilter, chip programming and new spark plugs (Bosch FR6-DTC). The Digi-Tec tuning is tested extensively against other tuning packages and consistently has won any comparison against simular packages. I can confirm the torque-gain at lower revs is awesome.

The Digi-Tec package is a set of alterations which fit together. That is may be also my answer to your question. Why only do a pulley upgrade if there are fully tested and award winning packages on the market? Because of this set I also have a lower fuel comsuption than the stock MCS, and you can be sure I use the extra bhp when the engine is warm and the road clear.

I got the Digi-Tec dealer address from my BMW dealer! He also said he had complete confidence in Digi-Tec and it would not void my warrenty! And also Digi-Tec give a 5 year warranty on engine, drive train etc. for an extra 100 euro, so I have double warranty.
 
#3 ·
lwlam said:
As I understand it, an ECU change is NOT required with a pulley change. It this true?
Yes, but an ECU remap for a 15% reduction pulley will give you even more horsepower and torque ;)

lwlam said:
... any suggestions on tuners in the Los Angeles/ Orange County areas to perform the pulley change?
Found the following links by doing a search:

Knowledgable Mod shop in SoCal

SoCal MINI aftermarket installer

You may also want to check the following:

Pulley Party Central
 
#4 ·
Finally, any suggestions on tuners in the Los Angeles/ Orange County areas to perform the pulley change? (I am fairly mechanical, but have never performed a pulley change and don't want to feck up.)
yes. I did mine in San Gabriel, LA. its called Impex. pm me for more info.
 
#5 ·
Wow! Thanks for the quick replies. Followup on One Click.

I think I understand the general opinion: if you're going to do the pulley, then do the ECU as well. Sounds like there is no real detriment to doing the pulley alone, but the additional gains make an ECU upgrade worthwhile.

I have read that the older versions of OneCLick would cause the EML light to come on and the engine would stall at higher RPMs. Does this still occur or has this issue been addressed?
 
#6 ·
Berthil said:
I watched your question but did not see any answer yet so I reply although I do not have a 100% answer. I have tuned my MCS with a Digi-Tec kit to 210 bhp. I have a new pulley, airfilter, chip programming and new spark plugs (Bosch FR6-DTC). The Digi-Tec tuning is tested extensively against other tuning packages and consistently has won any comparison against simular packages. I can confirm the torque-gain at lower revs is awesome.

The Digi-Tec package is a set of alterations which fit together. That is may be also my answer to your question. Why only do a pulley upgrade if there are fully tested and award winning packages on the market? Because of this set I also have a lower fuel comsuption than the stock MCS, and you can be sure I use the extra bhp when the engine is warm and the road clear.

I got the Digi-Tec dealer address from my BMW dealer! He also said he had complete confidence in Digi-Tec and it would not void my warrenty! And also Digi-Tec give a 5 year warranty on engine, drive train etc. for an extra 100 euro, so I have double warranty.
how much did the digi-tec kit cost??
 
#7 ·
Fabio said:
how much did the digi-tec kit cost??
It was 1249 Euro but I also got an extra sports air filter for 70 euro. And I also got tinted windows of the doors since the back windows were already tinted by BMW. They made me a good package deal. I LOVE the extra power, especially at low revs. I have read an extensive review of a German guy who was really pushing his MSC to the limit for hours on the German freeway on numorous occasions, hours at full speed. His Digi-Tec MCS didn't have one hickup of any kind. I know they give a 25% reduction if your car is older then 3 years, but mine is 1,5 years old. I seemed a lot of money to me, but I am very glad I did this. Much better than all the chrome interior rings, decals etc. I could have bought :)
 
#8 ·
Berthil said:
It was 1249 Euro but I also got an extra sports air filter for 70 euro. And I also got tinted windows of the doors since the back windows were already tinted by BMW. They made me a good package deal. I LOVE the extra power, especially at low revs. I have read an extensive review of a German guy who was really pushing his MSC to the limit for hours on the German freeway on numorous occasions, hours at full speed. His Digi-Tec MCS didn't have one hickup of any kind. I know they give a 25% reduction if your car is older then 3 years, but mine is 1,5 years old. I seemed a lot of money to me, but I am very glad I did this. Much better than all the chrome interior rings, decals etc. I could have bought :)
Thanks
I'll look further into it. I am not sure what i want cause i dont want to have any insurance/warranty/resale problems by modding the car.
 
#11 ·
allan michael said:
you are only going to get 6 more hp with the ECU upgrade on top of the pulley. I didnt bother. It is almost as expensive as getting the pulley upagrade, too.
allan
Allan - check out the GIAC ECU upgrade. Phenomenal results. It completely changes the way the MINI drives. Great power and smoothness and maybe best of all, the MINI actually can pull off the line fast and smooth! :D :D Can't recommend highly enough!
 
#13 ·
AMD ECU. Cuts out at redline?

I read some posts here that tell about occasions when a MINI One would cut out at redline when using the AMD OneClick.

Is this problem limited to the MINI One? Does this affect MINI Cooper S as well?

Thanks.

bkwalker said:
only 6 hp??!!

i would have thought more than that.. why do people bother getting it then?
i got a 15% pulley a few days ago now and i am planning on getting the AmD ECU...
ive heard it just contributes to making the drive a whole lot better..
 
#15 ·
Berthil said:
I have tuned my MCS with a Digi-Tec kit to 210 bhp. I have a new pulley, airfilter, chip programming and new spark plugs (Bosch FR6-DTC). The Digi-Tec tuning is tested extensively against other tuning packages and consistently has won any comparison against simular packages. I can confirm the torque-gain at lower revs is awesome.
Berthil,

I have the same 210HP Digi Tec package on my S, plus the Borla Race catback exhaust and the Mini Madness CAI. Altogether, my S should be pushing around 220-225 hp at the crank, (around 190-195hp at the wheels). I took my car to Apex R Motorsport in Tucson to get it dynoed, and to my surprise only 175,6 whp showed up, which translates to 201-202 hp at the crank. A stock MCS engine pulls a realistic 168-172 hp, and since the 15% pulley adds around 17hp, and the exhaust and CAI altogether about 10-12 hp, that leaves a mere 3-5 hp from the ECU. I know that I don't have a lemon because my car goes like stink, and I have no complains about performance.
But what gets me off is tuners over-inflating their HP claims, and Digi-Tec might be one of them. I know that a few conditions could have mask the final HP readings, such the fact that I was using 91 octane gas, (the only available in the area), high room temperature (90 degrees) and Tucson's 3,000 feet altitude above sea level. I doubt that those factors took away 20 whp.

The only thing that saved that day was a 99 Civic V-Tec with a Jackson Supercharger kit pulling just 165 whp... :p
 
#16 ·
sergio rollerfunk said:
But what gets me off is tuners over-inflating their HP claims, and Digi-Tec might be one of them. I know that a few conditions could have mask the final HP readings, such the fact that I was using 91 octane gas, (the only available in the area), high room temperature (90 degrees) and Tucson's 3,000 feet altitude above sea level. I doubt that those factors took away 20 whp.
Ik learned that every centigrade drop in temperature gives about one bhp more. That's why the real tuning diehards have watercoolers to cool the air before it enters the turbo and combustion chamber. Cool air can be compressed more so more air/gasoline mixture gets in the combustion chamber. I also heard that the difference between 95 and 98 is almost not noticable, but the difference between 91 and 98 is. I think the hot (less dense) air and the 91 fuel could easily result in 20 bhp loss, but I have no proof. The only proof I have is that my Digi-Tec MCS is going like lightning, I did not think 47 bhp could do that much. Just yesterday the DSC kicked in in second gear because I put the pedal to the metal, I did feel the front wheels loosing grip becuase of spinning and it was dry tarmac although cold and I still have thos Pirelli runflats.
 
#17 ·
sergio rollerfunk said:
Berthil,

I have the same 210HP Digi Tec package on my S, plus the Borla Race catback exhaust and the Mini Madness CAI. Altogether, my S should be pushing around 220-225 hp at the crank, (around 190-195hp at the wheels). I took my car to Apex R Motorsport in Tucson to get it dynoed, and to my surprise only 175,6 whp showed up, which translates to 201-202 hp at the crank. A stock MCS engine pulls a realistic 168-172 hp, and since the 15% pulley adds around 17hp, and the exhaust and CAI altogether about 10-12 hp, that leaves a mere 3-5 hp from the ECU.
Speaking of exaggerated HP claims, there are plenty of exaggerated claims of exhausts and intakes. The best exhausts have been shown to make as little as 5hp (and one magazine tested a bunch of them and none of them made for then 2hp!) and the Madness intake has been shown to make as little as ZERO hp. Realistically, intakes on the S are for show and sound, not any appreciable power. So MAYBE the Borla + Madness gives you 5hp. And of course, like everything else, I would expect the Digi Tec package to be an exaggerated claim as well.

Overall, I think your dyno was pretty accurate. 17% pulley, intake, exhaust and ECU should make about 200hp realistically at the crank.
 
#18 ·
greatgro said:
Speaking of exaggerated HP claims, there are plenty of exaggerated claims of exhausts and intakes. The best exhausts have been shown to make as little as 5hp (and one magazine tested a bunch of them and none of them made for then 2hp!) and the Madness intake has been shown to make as little as ZERO hp. Realistically, intakes on the S are for show and sound, not any appreciable power. So MAYBE the Borla + Madness gives you 5hp. And of course, like everything else, I would expect the Digi Tec package to be an exaggerated claim as well.

Overall, I think your dyno was pretty accurate. 17% pulley, intake, exhaust and ECU should make about 200hp realistically at the crank.

Its all in the testng.. i'd have to say.. the promini intake made quite a difference to my S through the whole rev range. But exhausts dont make too much difference unless the manifold is changed to include a sports cat.
 
#19 · (Edited)
greatgro said:
Overall, I think your dyno was pretty accurate. 17% pulley, intake, exhaust and ECU should make about 200hp realistically at the crank.
Are we not nitpicking too much on bhp? My Digi-tecs most noticable change was the extra pull at much lower revs due to the extra torque. The Digi-tec kit is tested as the best Mini tuning kit in several leading German motor magazines and it wins especially of the other kits because of the better torque.
http://www.autobild.de/tuning/testberichte/artikel.php?artikel_id=2655 (sorry it's German)
And this review on MIN2:
http://www.mini2.com/reviews/review5.html

I don't have a mod exhaust, but if you read the exhaust FAQ of Mini2 most of the people who did the exhaust feel a noticable difference in performance. I'm thinking about getting a mod exhaust, but it will be for sound and not for performance.
 
#21 ·
Despite my frustration with the numbers that my S pulled on the dyno last summer, I have to reckon that those 35 extra hp make a vast difference. Tested on the German autobahn with a G-tech Pro Comp, the numbers are self-explanatory (exhaust and CAI were not installed yet):

Stock / Digi Tec

80-120 Km/h in 3rd gear (50-75 mph) 4.88 4.47
80-120 Km/h in 4th gear (50-75 mph) 6.53 5.62
80-120 Km/h in 5th gear (50-75 mph) 8.53 7.00
80-120 Km/h in 6th gear (50-75 mph) 12.28 10.84
20-70 km/h in 2nd gear 5.41 4.78
70-120 km/h in 3rd gear 5.93 4.88
100-200 km/h in 3/4/5th gear (62-125 mph) 28.45 18.25
Top Speed km/h in 6th gear 214.1 234.5 (132 vs. 145 mph)

:rolleyes:
 
#22 ·
sergio rollerfunk said:
Despite my frustration with the numbers that my S pulled on the dyno last summer, I have to reckon that those 35 extra hp make a vast difference. Tested on the German autobahn with a G-tech Pro Comp, the numbers are self-explanatory :rolleyes:
This confirmes what I also feel with my Digi-Tec, look at that 10 second difference in 3/4/5 gear! Just one question Sergio, did you measure top speed with a nav system or did you read it from the speedometer. Thx
 
#23 ·
sergio rollerfunk said:
Despite my frustration with the numbers that my S pulled on the dyno last summer, I have to reckon that those 35 extra hp make a vast difference. Tested on the German autobahn with a G-tech Pro Comp, the numbers are self-explanatory (exhaust and CAI were not installed yet):

Stock / Digi Tec

80-120 Km/h in 3rd gear (50-75 mph) 4.88 4.47
80-120 Km/h in 4th gear (50-75 mph) 6.53 5.62
80-120 Km/h in 5th gear (50-75 mph) 8.53 7.00
80-120 Km/h in 6th gear (50-75 mph) 12.28 10.84
20-70 km/h in 2nd gear 5.41 4.78
70-120 km/h in 3rd gear 5.93 4.88
100-200 km/h in 3/4/5th gear (62-125 mph) 28.45 18.25
Top Speed km/h in 6th gear 214.1 234.5 (132 vs. 145 mph)

:rolleyes:
I have to disagree here bigtime. Those numbers are terrible for a 35hp difference. Take a look at your third gear runs from 50-75mph. You went 0.41s faster. That's 8.4% faster. That's with a 17% pulley and ECU, right? I think your ECU is providing NO power whatsoever. A pulley ALONE should provide AT LEAST that much of a performance gain. Check out my 60-80 mph runs I did. The BEFORE numbers were with a 19% pulley, intake and exhaust. The AFTER numbers were after adding the GIAC ECU and injectors.

Although I didn't dyno, I DID do some performance tests today with a few 60-80mph runs in third gear. There was a thread back in October comparing 60-80mph runs (I also posted mine there). So here is a comparison:

Date..................Mods....................................... Temp........Best Time
October 2004..... 19%, intake, UUC exhaust..............50F.......... 3.81
Jan 2004 (today)..Above mods PLUS GIAC+injectors.... 49F...........3.37

0.44 sec faster! That's 11.5% better! The temps were vitrually the same and I used the same exact strip of highway which I guess to be a little above 1000 feet elevation.

So adding just the ECU + injectors (as I already HAD the pulley), I accelerated 11.4% faster versus your 8.4%. And your second run had a pulley AND an ECU added.

The GIAC ECU + injectors claims 6-9hp and 8lbs of torque. That gave me 11.4% quicker acceleration.

Your 35hp pulley and ECU that claims 35hp gave you only an 8.4% quicker acceleration. The pulley alone should provide close to 17lbs of torque and 17hp. Yet you didn't get the kind of gains I got from just an ECU. So it still doesn't make any sense unless the Digitech ECU actually LOSES power. You're car should be much, much faster than that.

I'd try to get my money back and just get a pulley elsewhere! :mad:
 
#24 ·
Berthil said:
Ik learned that every centigrade drop in temperature gives about one bhp more. That's why the real tuning diehards have watercoolers to cool the air before it enters the turbo and combustion chamber. Cool air can be compressed more so more air/gasoline mixture gets in the combustion chamber. I also heard that the difference between 95 and 98 is almost not noticable, but the difference between 91 and 98 is. I think the hot (less dense) air and the 91 fuel could easily result in 20 bhp loss, but I have no proof. The only proof I have is that my Digi-Tec MCS is going like lightning, I did not think 47 bhp could do that much. Just yesterday the DSC kicked in in second gear because I put the pedal to the metal, I did feel the front wheels loosing grip becuase of spinning and it was dry tarmac although cold and I still have thos Pirelli runflats.
Just to pick a nit :D
Cooler air won't be compressed more. 10psi is 10psi. There's more oxygen simply because the air is more dense.

Nit sufficiently picked ..... Bye ;)
 
#25 ·
80-120 Km/h in 3rd gear (50-75 mph) 4.88 4.47 = 9.15%
80-120 Km/h in 4th gear (50-75 mph) 6.53 5.62 = 13,93%
80-120 Km/h in 5th gear (50-75 mph) 8.53 7.00 = 17,94%
80-120 Km/h in 6th gear (50-75 mph) 12.28 10.84 = 11.72%
20-70 km/h in 2nd gear 5.41 4.78 = 12,0%
70-120 km/h in 3rd gear 5.93 4.88 = 17,71%
100-200 km/h in 3/4/5th gear (62-125 mph) 28.45 18.25 = 35,85%
Top Speed km/h in 6th gear 214.1 234.5

Good enough for me! In 3rd gear 50-75 mph your talking about tenths of seconds, the error is in reading the speedometer with those margins. It also shows the Digitec Tuning gains a lot of torque at low revs until 6th gear, then it get's too low for the Digi-Tec also. Look at the cumulative gain of 35% through 3/4/5 gear. The Digi-Tec is not as bad as you say, it would have not won several comparisons with other big names in tuning if it were rubbish.
 
#26 ·
Berthil said:
This confirmes what I also feel with my Digi-Tec, look at that 10 second difference in 3/4/5 gear! Just one question Sergio, did you measure top speed with a nav system or did you read it from the speedometer. Thx
Berthil, all the acceleration/passes came from the G-Tech Pro. Top speed figures came from an external GPS device, not the built-in one. When it hit 234,5 km/h, the speedometer was indicating at that time a little bit over 240 km/h., about 150 mph.
And you're right, the major improvement came in the 100 to 200 km/h pass...more than 10 secs, I couldn't believe it! :eek: At first I thought that something was wrong, but since my wife has a bone-stock MCS, I tested the G-tech on her car with almost same results, close to 29 secs.


greatgro said:
I have to disagree here bigtime. Those numbers are terrible for a 35hp difference. Take a look at your third gear runs from 50-75mph. You went 0.41s faster. That's 8.4% faster. That's with a 17% pulley and ECU, right? I think your ECU is providing NO power whatsoever. A pulley ALONE should provide AT LEAST that much of a performance gain. Check out my 60-80 mph runs I did. The BEFORE numbers were with a 19% pulley, intake and exhaust. The AFTER numbers were after adding the GIAC ECU and injectors.

Your 35hp pulley and ECU that claims 35hp gave you only an 8.4% quicker acceleration. The pulley alone should provide close to 17lbs of torque and 17hp. Yet you didn't get the kind of gains I got from just an ECU. So it still doesn't make any sense unless the Digitech ECU actually LOSES power. You're car should be much, much faster than that.

I'd try to get my money back and just get a pulley elsewhere!
I have a 15%, not a 17% pulley. As you can see, the improvement gets better and better from 3rd through 6th gear, ranging from 9% to 17%...even 36% percent higher on the 62-125 mph pass. Good enough for me. Sometimes the cold numbers don't show the real picture: the car feels totally different, and it has instant throttle response. What about top speed? A 20 km/h difference is no joke. And let's not forget that all came from just a 15% pulley and ECU mod. No exhaust and no intake by that time.
Since my wife has the same model, we were able to compare them side by side on the autobahn, and if you think that .5 secs in a short pass in third gear is not an improvement, try to imagine both cars mashing the throttle at the same time and one takes off and leaves the other one behind by 7/8 cars lenght in just a matter of seconds. That is how a .5 second improvement looks.
Like I said before, I can't complain about performance with the DT conversion: With the actual passing numbers, my S would have destroyed my last car, a modified 3000GT VR4 with +400 whp, insane turbo lag and tall gearing.

...just my 02 cents. :rolleyes:

2beemini2 said:
The Digi-Tec is not as bad as you say, it would have not won several comparisons with other big names in tuning if it were rubbish.
;)
 
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