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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My R50* (EDITED - originally thought it was an R53) has a horrible loud racket coming from the engine

The car starts and runs
although there may be a connected issue when pulling off from a stop - the car takes an age to get upto speed (it could just be me being 'cautious' with my right foot tho)

It sounds;
on startup and
on running hot or cold
when the clutch is either in or out
the only time I have found it stops sounding is when coasting at speed (foot of the accelerator)

People have told me it might be;
the timing chain guides (one has broken),
a broken rocker,
that the water pump belt is breaking up.

Heres how I got here;
The noise started after I messed up an overtake - slipping into 1st vice 3rd and applying full right foot.
I didn't notice an issue at first as I had the radio up loud (which suggests no loss in power at pull-away as above, hence I think I might just be being automatically/obliviously cautious)


What I need now
Hi. I'm no mechanic and have very little experience under the bonnet, i have changed oil, coolant, brakes etc. My thinking is the car still drives but it's embarrassingly noisy... if I can fix the noise & confirm that the oil pump is functioning I might get several years out of my lil Mini while saving me a load of cash and the planet from a bit more scrap - help advice will be appreciated as this thread progresses

My plan is to take a look at the timing chain first (will do this on Thursday this week - 23rd June), till then its utube research

BTW
I have taken the car to a garage and they couldn't give a firm idea about where they thought the noise was coming from or what it could be caused by without investigation which they suggested would be an expensive waste of money for the age of the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
very common for bottom damped pulley to break up when start going can sound fairly bad ,
Cheers Mike, I think you posted an image of one of these on the other thread?

I've got it in mind to look out for it, will check the utube vids too to get an idea of the work involved on the R53



Read an interesting piece last night about the Tritec engine - Brazilian made as planned by the Rover group who initially considered using the K series. Every day is a school day!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
very common for bottom damped pulley to break up when start going can sound fairly bad ,
What's the status of the pully when coasting?

Would the noise stop if this was the source of my racket ?
 

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the super charger would be in bypass when throttle off less load on belt slightly, would pull belt off and check the ss drive for any bad feeling or bearings or issues with the nylon coupler as well , also would find the load would change on pulley from throttle to coasting,
 
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will add there is known weakness in timing tensioner and they clatter like hell when fail
 
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2005 R53, 2005 R53 lightweight, 2008 R55S, 2012 R58 FJCW, 2014 R60SD All4, 1996 Mini Cooper 35SE.
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chain or bottom end will make quite different sounds,

chain noise whether tensioner or broken guide will sound like it's a higher speed lighter metallic rattle literally like a chain being dragged over a metal handrail maybe just damped a little because it's inside a case

big end failure is really very loud and rather common sadly, it can easily go hand in hand with an event like yours, if suspected don't use it, if doing so it will kill the crank if not already and can quickly lead to a failed rod coming though the block

post up a steady clip of the noise, ideally lasting a decent period, post it to you tube and link it here and I'll give you a better idea of what it is, I do enough of them,

chain if left with a broken guide will eat through the block, don't ignore it, it will also jump teeth which could explain a power loss, chances are the guide might have already been breaking up before your event and could have just worsened and perhaps jumped at the time, you only have scope for a couple of teeth on these before other damage occurs

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without seeing/hearing it we're only guessing but your description suggests it's a problem that shouldn't be driven on....
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
chain or bottom end will make quite different sounds,

chain noise whether tensioner or broken guide will sound like it's a higher speed lighter metallic rattle literally like a chain being dragged over a metal handrail maybe just damped a little because it's inside a case

big end failure is really very loud and rather common sadly, it can easily go hand in hand with an event like yours, if suspected don't use it, if doing so it will kill the crank if not already and can quickly lead to a failed rod coming though the block

post up a steady clip of the noise, ideally lasting a decent period, post it to you tube and link it here and I'll give you a better idea of what it is, I do enough of them,

chain if left with a broken guide will eat through the block, don't ignore it, it will also jump teeth which could explain a power loss, chances are the guide might have already been breaking up before your event and could have just worsened and perhaps jumped at the time, you only have scope for a couple of teeth on these before other damage occurs

View attachment 285977

without seeing/hearing it we're only guessing but your description suggests it's a problem that shouldn't be driven on....
Link to the car and noise mentioned
as suggested by @ExclusiveWorkshops
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
chain or bottom end will make quite different sounds,

chain noise whether tensioner or broken guide will sound like it's a higher speed lighter metallic rattle literally like a chain being dragged over a metal handrail maybe just damped a little because it's inside a case

big end failure is really very loud and rather common sadly, it can easily go hand in hand with an event like yours, if suspected don't use it, if doing so it will kill the crank if not already and can quickly lead to a failed rod coming though the block

post up a steady clip of the noise, ideally lasting a decent period, post it to you tube and link it here and I'll give you a better idea of what it is, I do enough of them,

chain if left with a broken guide will eat through the block, don't ignore it, it will also jump teeth which could explain a power loss, chances are the guide might have already been breaking up before your event and could have just worsened and perhaps jumped at the time, you only have scope for a couple of teeth on these before other damage occurs

View attachment 285977

without seeing/hearing it we're only guessing but your description suggests it's a problem that shouldn't be driven on....
Cheers for the info and suggestion, vid uploaded

The sound on the vid isn't excellent but it might be good enough for your expert ears

If i'm honest it doesn't sound much like a chain being rattled over railings to me
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There's another utube vid this time of the harmonic balancer. It looks different to the originals i've seen in replacement vids so hopefully i've got the right bit. Mini One R53 - Harmonic Balancer

The belt looks like it might have a run missing but otherise no cracking or breaking... Worth changing?


One thing I will add that i've noticed, the car smells of poo... would the clutch make that racket if its on its way out?
 

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ok first it's an R50 but same core motor style

noise sounds like there's more than one thing going on

curious.... does the oil light come on with ignition before you start the car?

noise could be in part as my above post but does sound heavier in regard to other sound/s, crank damper can play a part in noise, the higher speed/tone sound to me could be chain related, take the rocker cover off perhaps and look down the side to see the guide/s, they can make quite a racket

certainly shouldn't sound anything like that, these can run pretty much silently bar some belt or injector noise ticking etc.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ok first it's an R50 but same core motor style

noise sounds like there's more than one thing going on

curious.... does the oil light come on with ignition before you start the car?

noise could be in part as my above post but does sound heavier in regard to other sound/s, crank damper can play a part in noise, the higher speed/tone sound to me could be chain related, take the rocker cover off perhaps and look down the side to see the guide/s, they can make quite a racket

certainly shouldn't sound anything like that, these can run pretty much silently bar some belt or injector noise ticking etc.

Cheers for the correction re R50, makes sense have seen a few bits in the past that didn't quite add up. The badges on the side are 'Cooper S' which made me think it was an R53


So more than one thing going on.... what have I done!!

The oil light has never lit and definitely not on ignition

I've always checked the level which has been steady as long as I have had the car... actually what oil does the car use? I've not yet done a change (only had the car since December) when the oil looked brand new (make of that what you will)
 

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ok, first job, renew pressure switch,

oil is 0/30 or 5/30 LL04 but a lot use 5/40 which can still be LL01 which tbf the car would have been using back in the day anyway probably, 04 just is later spec,

still worth a pressure check

I'd also pull the rocker cover and still look around
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Cheers @ExclusiveWorkshops
I've got some bits on order for the inspection and sensor change (guess which was the only socket missing from my long set!!, I was so chuffed when I realised I had them then found the 8mm gap;)

@mike1967 suggested an oil change and check of the sump while I was in the wrong thread (garage found swarf in the oil) so I'm going to do this at the same time as changing the oil sender switch

For anyone else thinking about an oil change theres a thread here explaining about the filter and what not to throw away with it! Worth a read before you dive in I reckon Oil Change, Oil Light, you know where this is going - North American Motoring

More in a couple of days hopefully
 

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Cheers @ExclusiveWorkshops
I've got some bits on order for the inspection and sensor change (guess which was the only socket missing from my long set!!, I was so chuffed when I realised I had them then found the 8mm gap;)

@mike1967 suggested an oil change and check of the sump while I was in the wrong thread (garage found swarf in the oil) so I'm going to do this at the same time as changing the oil sender switch

For anyone else thinking about an oil change theres a thread here explaining about the filter and what not to throw away with it! Worth a read before you dive in I reckon Oil Change, Oil Light, you know where this is going - North American Motoring

More in a couple of days hopefully
if there is swarf in the oil, one thing you could check before wading into loads of work, is to gently lever forward, and push back, that crank damper and get some idea of end float, some of these making this racket can have millimetres rather than thousandths, heavy clutch can be the original cause as well as other stuff and the thrust bearings as well as crank thrust face can get badly worn, eventually potentially affecting the oil pump rotors, which can be an issue on their own anyway, brittle things that can break up.

obviously try not to damage anything trying, I tend to try and get a feel for this when changing a clutch, not an accurate check by any means but there should be very little movement, and the point of mentioning it is just that if it is indeed excessive, it might save you the trouble of getting into it too far, as there'll be no saving the crank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
if there is swarf in the oil, one thing you could check before wading into loads of work, is to gently lever forward, and push back, that crank damper and get some idea of end float, some of these making this racket can have millimetres rather than thousandths, heavy clutch can be the original cause as well as other stuff and the thrust bearings as well as crank thrust face can get badly worn, eventually potentially affecting the oil pump rotors, which can be an issue on their own anyway, brittle things that can break up.

obviously try not to damage anything trying, I tend to try and get a feel for this when changing a clutch, not an accurate check by any means but there should be very little movement, and the point of mentioning it is just that if it is indeed excessive, it might save you the trouble of getting into it too far, as there'll be no saving the crank.

Hi @ExclusiveWorkshops
Not too sure I understand what you want me to try.

Are you talking about the harmonic damper wheel and if so suggesting that i pull and push it toward the engine and see how far it has in play?

If so, belt off and move by hand or will it need a small crow bar or something to tease it ?

On a positive note I sorted the oil sender today.

For anyone else who's thinking of replacing the sender - it was a bit of a pain to get the plug on the new unit, the metal pin needed a little encouragement away from the edge of the socket housing (only a little though!)

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I haven't taken the oil sump off yet but have found what I think to be magnetic swarf in the drained oil, its hard to tell if it is magnetic when there's a chance its just clinging to the magnet with the oil but having floated a magnet thru the oil it came out with quite a bit of oily metal 'dust' clinging on.
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yes the damper, idea being the crankshaft it attaches to might move laterally more than it should, you might need to pry it carefully but not always, won't necessarily need the belt off

above clip isn't so clear, cameral moving quite a lot, the silver arms at the top are your rocker arms which house the hydraulic lifters one end with the other housing a roller than runs over the camshaft lobes, these arms open your valves, so they move fast and work hard, some lateral play is normal, they're only held in place by plastic guides or adjacent parts, very little side loading etc.

not sure your front timing chain guide hasn't lost it's top layer, couldn't really see it well, that's what I'd wish to see, the top layer is on both but the front one most common for breaking up, only plastic but leads to chain slack and noise which can be the chain on the block sometimes, was there any slack feel to the chain? Any metal filings on the cam sensor tip?
 
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