[JTownPBX]

Hi everyone slow to start here I guess i signed up quite some time ago. I guess I never took advantage of the better qualities of this website in earlier years. I was out sucking a ton of air into my r56 turbo charged cooper across the Midwest and Southwest. god bless everyone here and everyone's spirit be that of someone that does not quit.
I am getting ready to attempt to install my timing chain again and want to know if I have overlooked anything. As far as the timing goes? It's a mini cooper with about 110 thousand miles on it. It suffered a water leak at the hard pipe at which time it was driven for about two and half hours. At that point during the summer it made it to a mini cooper dealer. They looked it over and decided that the turbo had failed(turned out to be a stuck actuator). Anyway having the car towed back to my garage I decided to pull the head and change the gasket. I know what happens during water leaks.
I took the head off and the block still had water that was probably why it made it up there before suffering turbo failure. so during the summer I bought a lot of parts for the car. New borg warner turbo,head gasket, arp bolts(which was a good call), all new coolant related components,timing components,tools to do the jobs. My problem at that point was a head gasket I believe that was too thin and wondered why they would list it in a r56 category for a product to buy which was .70 sized head gasket. SOOO I wrecked the valves. Now it may be just that. but would like to know how to install a timing chain and a few more timing chain related questions.
Lets start with this question. Does crankshaft endplay occur in a mini cooper to a degree that it would effect the tightening of the crank bolt and loosen up that same bolt once the car is started and is there a tool for the mini cooper to check endplay if that is the case? If that is not a common occurance at 110 thousand miles to make a difference that would also be helpful if someone said that?

 

[JTownPBX]

Why thankyou very much Sir. I do have the 120 sized head gasket machine shop removed .006 to make the .012 I was running a .70 head gasket the first time. I used advanced knowledge some of which worked against me(wrong head gasket size it should be .90 the first time if no head work was done. Which was not had the car sense brand new.
Back to that problem and the cascading effect that took hold of my engine from that LATER.
thank you for answering the question about end play.
Next detailed question. between home remedies and parts replacement: The intake camshaft shares space with a vanos which is an ornate spiral spring. Some people have been taking to rebuilding them is that because aftermarket products seem to be not of quality?
I say this because I discovered two bent intake vales on my head one of which had problems going in and out of the valve guide that it would stick with use a tac hammer to remove. So interference engine was damaged on the non interference side(I had installed new intake valves!). Did not use a special lube grease for them the first time. I am jotting it up to that. At this point I will be taking my vanos to machine shop and we can go over the inspection of the device. The Device does pass by my standards in regards to the inspection of the item. Which is the dot lining up to the mass of metal that points up.
Naked eye. The intake valves I will be replacing all of them. Though the other six intake valves are as smooth as glass and the guides are not split on the intake side. I new round of intakes is what I am going to use. But the vanos I am at a standstill on becuase of the price, the inspection I did the multiple times;that I attempted to install a timing chain. And the idea that it does not come up much on a replacement list of things.
My head is going to be as perfect as I can get it this time. My thoery is that those two intake valves from the first time I ran the .70 sized gasket touched the pistons because the vanos staggered the valve timing on the intake valves and two of them in the cylinder touched the pistons. Because the car ran smooth with the .70 gasket(maybe even a littler more responsive considering its a 10.5 to 1 ratio piston and I put a thinner than head gasket which gives me closer to 11 to 1 compression. Discovering that the exhaust valves do have 20thousandth forgiveness in them it just that the intake valves do not becuase of the vanos staggered timing during certain thottle position. Hence creating the domino effect and causing more friction on the timing system which led to the exhaust camshaft during the first attempt to break free because I only torque angled it at 90 degrees not 130 like have done sense. The other attempts which have been three that have accompanied the first. where done by inspecting everything until this time checking the intake valves.
I have a brand new timing set. and a 3 time attempt brand new timing set right now. The other time the last time I cobbled parts from the original timing set and some new to those attempts.
I have a brand new timing set(two guides three fastener bolts to the block for the guides,one exhaust cam gear,one crank timing gear, one upper guide new tensioner(should it be primed?),and timing chain for the n14 specific. with addition of oil pump crank gear, oil pump chain, Crank hub which I will ask later if it needs prepped before install.
I have the timing kit to include the intake,exhaust cam locks with center lock,flywheel pin which fits perfect no play, and dummy tensioner(Should I nurl the tip of the inner bolt to keep it from driving into the tensioner plastic guide?)

 

[JTownPBX]

The Vanos clutch mechanism sits on the end of the intake camshaft. And I did not say that it opens and closes the valves. It staggers the timing of those valve more aggressively. It's a N14 it has no vanos actuator mechanism It has a vanos sensor and clutch at the end of the intake camshaft.
Ok the torque procedure. I have highlighted and taken some of that in consideration. Point is getting past the SUPER EXTREME COST OF MY cylinder head. Just rotating the engine after my attempts I have made to make this timing thing work(keep in mind it probably was just a thin head gasket that slightly trashed two of my intake valves;stuff I did not see with the naked eye). So those two trashed valves one of which was sticking in the valve guide; now it's action after being installed in the cylinder with the spring and retainer would not have been normal on that valve the other one from the same cylinder was bent and scratchy; but no with the naked eye you could not identify any of it from the other 8 unless you do a tear down and remove the valves. which I did.
Now the four turn. of the four stoke engine procedure. Is correct I do not argue that. But when and how you feel a stiffening as you turn is on a very low level because the valves are soft the intake camshaft has vanos. Very hard to tell considering I have new rings full compression and a stiff plastic valve guide set that is brand new(which make a tatching sound each time I go around in a full revolution incidentally).
I will do that part like I always have. It's the loading part that is new to me that your talking about. I have the n14 engine not the n18. I do not remember where it said in the books that you should only do a minor torque spec along with full torque of the crank bolt with torque angle then spin it four times. I mean it makes sense you want things to snuggle in. but if it lost it on my brand new valves again in this procedure it would certainly not run.
Starting the car I have cobbled together a new timing set that I have used for a couple of these attempts. I will install then I will press the start button three times to prime the fuel and then commence to install the un touched brand new timing chain with all the new stuff. Because this procedure just like that four rotation of the motor almost demands people use there new head as flipping tool in order; I guess to make sure the crank and cam bolts are settled in and bolts are stretch torqued.
Good job I will look into this comment when I commence to do the install. but stuff like dummy tensoiner and it digging into the plastic guide like a drill bit. does not help I have to take a grinder to that and knock burr's and some of the threads on the tip of the thin bolt so it does not do that.
I do use a jegs low inch pound torque tool that starts at zero. mimicking the real tensioner is gonna be hard. One of my attempts I used a fingers only without the wrench and did not fair as well as the recommended inch pound torque spec.
yea putting a timing chain on twice because I do not want to risk overloading it during the start button fuel prim process. Which is basically how the timing chain is changed in most descriptions. assuming you are changing a timing chain and not the head gasket to go with it. (that the fuel is primed). But what you said is they stretch in the four rotation sequence. before the other two steps.......sorry one step of the process which would be torque angle time.
Still need more info on that dummy tensioner before I start trusting myself again. AND I..actually had it running good the first time. It was just under full load during driving that it let loose. THIN HEAD GASKET. it was .070 when it should of been .090.
the car had also ran at all rpm in the garage on jackstands for 4 days before that happened. So maybe I am just scared even though I did the right thing and did not make a big deal out of the dummy tensioner tightening process?

 

[JTownPBX]

So you just torque: The crank bolt 40nm no more no less, Then the cam bolts both at 20nm for the n14 mini cooper engine. then rotate the engine the four 360 degree rotations. Then torque angle everything.
Or do you torque the crank bolt at 40nm and torque angle at 180 degrees before the cams get any torque value on them at all.
I know the cams get 180 degrees a piece I saw a mini mechanic do that. The crank bolt I am not sure on the book says 40nm but I wonder about that part.
Also was wondering if they re surface people heads at the mini cooper dealer. If that is usual practice. Because I am confused about my cylinder heaad thickness at this point also. And wanted to know the nominal fraction or equation of what head gasket to get even. And a lower compression piston as they state to equal the 10.5 to 1 compression pistons I have. Or if I can come close with a three piece gasket with custom sized steel piece in the middle of the three piece gasket.
I don't want to buy a new head.....but I have already had a bad argument about it and it looks like the mini cooper head can only be surfaced once in its life; before you have to purchase the thickness gasket on the market that will conventionally fit it. And mini cooper dealer and service may have used that chance up when the car was under warranty(I don't know do you?)I have had the car sense it was brand new!
I need a traditional measurement of a mini cooper's cylinder head thickness and a way to compare mine against that original measurement(with a micrometer or measuring device and measurement points so I know how much has been taken off and get a gasket with the right piston compression ratio...piston set.
because I really don't want to lose power I have lost a lot in the process of making this work and don't need a low compression engine or a engine that will just hit the valves with the pistons. I could easily just buy a new bare casting for the price of a bar of gold dang near. And it's not easy but better then people telling me it's a bolt that is loose when it was piston valve clearance the whole time.
And I know that they do have shims ready and available for that engine. But I need the proper one with gasket kit or the custom sized mini head gasket. And a way to measure my cylinder head. I have a beautiful cylinder head from the machine shop. And have to consider it is a paper weight without me seeing first hand how thick the head is and what the custom sized gasket is for it? Beautiful but in todays world not new with all the material on it because it was surfaced so many times.
I'm sorry I'm going on and on. The first part of my comment was the most important question I had for you about the crank bolt torque rotate then torque angle that lower crank bolt? Or torque, torque angle then rotate; while the camshafts are just torqued waiting to be torque angled after rotation.

 

[JTownPBX]

My camlock set got five stars on amazon for value. not exactly a 200 dollar cam lock set. but the only to get five stars. I has all the components. And that is what it looked like to me watching a tech tighten the crank bolt(did not know what torque he was using) Then torque angling it afterward at 120 degrees is what it looked like but he had to turn that wrench in four short strokes; 120 degrees.
It would be great if you were here though you have said everything about it. I feel like I am missing something, mainly because of what you just said: That it is whole process. I got the concept. I just got done about a hour ago installing my new intake valves in the head I got back from the machine shop early today it is about 2:30 where I am at right now. Any way. The head looks great back from the machine shop from when I wrecked my exhaust valves because of the timing. The steel guides took damage on the exhaust side. Had to have them replaced with another set of 8 steel valve guide. and new seats cut for them....again..
Now it is right where it had been before tomorrow I install the brand new exhaust valves. I will think about what you said about that timing issue. Thing is I don't see how the crank bolt is gonna hold the timing during the test with new valve guides and valves. I have each one lubed up with valve/engine/etc special lube not like cam lube or assembly, something the machine shop sold me on for the assembly. But I can feel the stiffness of the all new valve train,springs,lifters the works. And your of the opinion that the tensioner is only used during first stage torque, then move to the real tensioner pin/bolt for the testing four rotation phase? does that tensioner get primed before installation.
I don't quite know how you said that. but it would be one heck of a test if the engine kept the timing during the first stage of the torquing process with the tensioner pin/bolt in. that what I though you were saying. And just use the dummy tensioner for the pulling up the slack of the chain and the initial torque of each of the three gears.
Why can't someone torque the crank gear down to 40nm then torque angle it at 120 before ever messing with anything else. Like the book show with the screwdriver holding the chain up while the crank gear and guides are dangling inside the timing house.
so The way your saying it each of those gears don't get final tightening because they need to spin or rotate as one system under the torque value only gently working there way to the faces of the snout of the crank and the camshaft faces on the end. And after each of the 4 rotation procedures that come up snake eye's. the bolt for whatever of the three gears has to be loosened and camshaft and crankshaft locks back into place and reset for another attempt(with the 27mm wrench pushing forward toward the firewall or pulling towards one self as they are torquing the bolt back down to the torque value for another attempt. (some people say it is good to have two people do something like that). but I don't have any friends locally around me. My timing set still looks perfect but it does have about thirty thousandths play in between the camshaft and cam lock. I wanted to shim that with a feeler gauge while I torque on the gear bolts but wonder where to put it on the inside of the exhaust camshaft lock or on the outside of the exhaust cam lock closer to me as I work on the engine and just behind the turbo charger?
I wished they sold one piece hubs for that mini cooper like they do with the big bother of the mini cooper the bmw M3.
So yea I still have timing issues to iron out. What I think I might do this time is try to do one thing a day which would slow down installation to about four days. But i will check in here and let you know what I have done with the timing. I will start the first day by tightening down the crank bolt without the seal installed to 40nm Then torque angle to 120 degrees that will be the first day. then I will write another paragraph how I am prepping up the dummy/test tensioner
I won't work on any bolts other then the crank bolt that first day. everything else will just be mock up for the next task for the next day. Does it matter that I had been torquing the crank bolt in the crankshaft previously at 180 degrees after 40nm or 38.5 pounds? Is the inner threads of the crankshaft O.K. for a lesser torque angle degree?
sounds like I just need to play around with it for a while before torque angling anything down. rotating it and getting it used to the surfaces of the crank and camshafts?
There is no good old way the crank bolt sat on the hub because my hub is brand new. So I am only finding a spot where the whole hub literally becomes like the stretch bolt where each surface of the gears and inside face of the hub have used great amount of pressure and twisting force to hold as one piece. But like you said it takes about a hour or two for someone like me if I did it all at once. Because I am constantly turning the crank pulley wheel four revolutions each time and checking the timing. under different definitions the last being: Turning the crank pulley four times with all three bolts only torqued not torque angled with the real tensioner bolt in Un primed or primed? I don't think that part matters? so much.
It is for a good reason though thank you for saying you would come over it's for my mom who is small 5 foot and her car she is used to for the last 10 years..

 

[JTownPBX]

I believe what your saying to be the truth. because I never let you know the first time I timed the car it ran perfect. Until I throttled it while driving. At that point it lost the cam timing on the exhaust side. I know that I was running a .070 mm gasket. but I'll bet before I had the machine work done then that it was in a .070mm category barely but there. the standard gasket is .090 without machine work done. The machinist says I need the .120 And am confident in what he said about the valve clearance. It was surfaced twice. He did it the second time.
Point is what your saying runs parallel with what has happened to me. I lost a we bit of timing on the exhaust. It caused the car to stop. I towed it home reset the timing then crashed the valves after driving for some time and four days on jack stands running and putting new oil after the break in oil. I did the head gasket timing chain and rod bearings and rings that is the general scoop.
and you said that is what the test is all about. clearing out the problem with the exhaust cam gear and the rest of the gears slipping like that. To look past the idea of crashing valves against the pistons and focus on the actual problem in a generic timing procedure as per what the book says. which is mainly right they do not elaborate on the testing procedure. But the values they give do intersect with what you say.

 

[JTownPBX]

Vacuum pump is brand new and past inspection for wobble before I installed it. fuel pump is new. all coolant related items new. piston rings rod bearings new. Harmonic balancer and hub were new. Oil chain and gear on the crank were old. Now I have a new timing set which includes everything except the vanos. I have also bought a oil pump gear for the crankshaft and chain. so everything on the engine is new new borg warner turbo with Jcw exhaust manifold. Everything in valvetrain is new except the for the cams.
All the stuff I puchased for this build are brand new. It's the timing sets and valves and machine work that I keep paying for each time. I started the building process in may 2019. I even pulled out of a old box my serpentine belt tensioner that I pulled off at thirty thousand miles because I replaced my alternator, battery from stock which was the up rated alternator 120 or 150amp It. but the old belt tensioner still had the cross hatch on the steel wheel.
So I'm just thinking that bolt is having a heck of time because of all the compression and friction from the crank rod bearings to the valvetrain to the accesories.
What I need to do is have the hub welded or something or some type of adhesive or epoxy. Not a lot just a dod of it on different area's where the gears are. but something like adhesive is like silly putty at 6000 rpm.
I need a one piece hub or something.
I will probably try this again your way. I don't think it could get any more authentic considering your from the UK and dealt with this type of car. for the heritage of the car reason. For the reason if it slips again it's not the end of the world. And because I see no other options on the market right now. Except for the crank bolt capture for the mini cooper r56.
SO I heard the part where you said don't torque angle the bolt for the crank until the test was done. I will try to be careful and turn the crank pully only during that part with the dummy pre tensioner in place then graduate to the real tensioner and finally if it passes the test of holding timing under that condition a hour or two hours of me rotating it by hand four revolutions each time then I will torque angle all three gears starting with crank bolt and ending with the exhaust cam bolt.

 

[JTownPBX]

Do you use the spanner wrench pulling toward you and into the cam lock as you tighten or pushing toward the firewall as you tighten? does the cam sit at lets say 91 degrees which would be holding the spanner on the cam lock outside toward me. or 89 degrees pushing holding the spanner against the inside cam lock facing the firewall?
And I am aware I may possibly need someone else doing that as I tighten the cam bolts.
Also how do I reset the crank if that slips during the test? or is that such a no go that I would have to remove the timing chain and start the entire approach again. Also during the other attempts expect the last one I was using a 22 mm wrench to shift the cams into place for the cam locks and stopped doing that of course. The brass fitting on the end that locks into the vacuum pump started to un screw. NOW is just lightly turned it the other way. I think it tightens up counterclockwise anyway which would me it stays tight as the engine rotates counterclockwise, point is.........this is the last thing I inspected this time around I can put a finger on......is something like this gonna cause a problem it did not feel like unscrewing with the naked hand. but a lot is on the line should I buy a new stock o.e. cam with this fitting already on it. because mine is no good anymore?

 

[JTownPBX]

camshaft lock tools are not perfect in nature. they have from my own to others that I have seen have 30thousandths play in them. also I believe the camshaft lock tool are built at 90 degrees hold down. Where as the camshafts get something like 91 degrees. so the camshaft locks are a bit wide(30,000 thousandths wide). Now I can use a feeler gauge to take up the slack. And I know a 27mm wrench is built for that part of the camshaft but the cam locks literally lock over that part. There is a 22mm hex built into the provision for the high pressure fuel pump. but again they don't advise holding from that. Now what you saying is that if it breaks loose during the test to hold the inlet camshaft at 90 degrees with no camlock in place so I would be using some kind of degree tool or 90 degree level. of some sort.
Listen I don't know if it gets 90 degrees or 91 degrees people have said there is 3 to 4 degrees forgiveness built into those cam timings(which I am led to believe that would be for advance only and there is no forgiveness for setting them). Also the way you speaking of it....it sounds right because you implying also there is not really any forgiveness and the whole strategy is focused on rotating the engine until the gears hold solid to their shaft counterparts. For two reasons, but one that is more important; that would be when you go to stretch the bolts that you have found maximum torque hold down so the gears on whatever shaft you are turning are not likely to drift as you are torque angling(stretching) the bolts.
Now not allowing the cam lock to hold the camshaft. So would I be hoovering the camshaft with the wrench inside of the camlock as much as possible or would I be holding the camshaft with the wrench bracing the camshaft 3sided flat surfaced bolt in the casting of the camshaft on one side(bracing on one side) of the camlock.
Or would I simply take the camlock off. Now if it is the intake side it would be both camlocks if it's the exhaust it's just one camlock.
I say this because I saw a person on youtube use a wrench on the far end of the cam it looked like he was holding it from the vacuum provision heck on the titanium fitting that fits into the vacuum pump to power that. Now that's a 22mm wrench.
the video shows a level picture more than a over the top view so it may have been a freehanded 27mm without the camlock in place as his buddy is tightening the exhaust camshaft bolt, he was holding the cam into place, just did not know if he was bracing one side of the cam three side provision for a 27mm wrench bolt thing against the camlock.
And the other video I saw shows a guy use a feeler guage to take up the slack within the slightly generic camlock set; because it was slightly wide from the manufacturer of the camlocks tool set; as is mine camlock tool set.
If what you are saying is wrong on both ends then I will shell out the money for a new camlock set if that is what it takes. swabwen is not the brand I am gonna buy though because it looks like my fifty dollar version and that version both have a 30 thousandth play within the camlock.
That guy took the slack up inside the camlock and camshaft with a 30 thousandth feeler gauge he used on the turbo side of the head on the lower half of that three sided and on side curved provision to put the 27mm wrench. at that point the exhaust camshaft was immobile.
but that deal was the n18 engine with the vanos.
Your saying the inlet cam might be the one to move therefore I should............do what now? remove the camlock?

 

[JTownPBX]

I guess that finally answers my question. I will go then and try it this way. And the tensioner does it get primed full or primed and bled like lifters; with oil before putting it in with a 27mm socket; or not any oil at all.
does the test tensioner get anything else aside of 5 inch pounds of torque?
And what about the chain each time I re torque from breaking loose let say a intel gear? i would simply push the slack of the chain from that action back into the tensioner side? So I would be re torque with the recommended 22nm of torque to the inlet with the real tensioner in the engine if the test failed at that point?

 

[JTownPBX]

what about the chain each time I re torque from breaking loose let say a intel gear? i would simply push the slack of the chain from that action back into the tensioner side? So I would be re torque with the recommended 22nm of torque to the inlet with the real tensioner in the engine if the test failed at that point?

 

[JTownPBX]

What about those guide as it pertains to the test tensioner. Your saying distorting the guide meaning to warp it in some way or another. but you know as well as I that test tensioner makes that guide start to move toward the piston side as you tighten the screw up it looks skewed. Do I stop before it skews the guide. Like the upper guide a lot of people put that on skewed. with the tip closest to them facing closer to the right wheel and the back of the upper guide plastic facing more so toward the air box! Is there a reason for that?
Do I have to somehow register my new hard components with the mini cooper computer on board. Or set the computer on a reset of some sort? Because it's like the engine mechaniclly has all it's faculties. The computer only knows the 105 thousand mile engine and the way it acted before!
below I put a picture of my cylinder head with upper guide perfectly installed. And a pic of the motor with all the new stuff on it. right now the cylinder head is waiting to go back on sense it came back with the new guides installed.
I really want everyone here that feels like they can help. even if it is something non sense I will give it a try. It's better then the other times I tried to proform this procedure. Like when Mike said to oil the bolts does that mean crankshaft bolt also. Is something like ARP type oil in the packet good for that? I know they use it on Rod bolts and head bolts.

 

[JTownPBX]

I get the picture for the most part. I've only done it 4 times now. the problems all seem to be non instruction book related. Like the oiling the bolt part. I remember the book saying don't thread lock the bolt, but your right it did not say don't oil it with like a ARP head stud type oil(If I did I would still have to maintain the dryness of all the other surfaces; and the crank bolt I still don't know; book I think said make sure to not use anything on that).
So I have two new gears to go on the hub with a new crank bolt. someone said they think with doing that it might work this time. It's just another try is the way I see it. But thanks to Mike I will have much more control and inspection over that process that most book and instructions fail to mention in their brief summery of the timing chain. Really they are the same instruction but just breaking them down into modules.
Just like me priming the fuel with a timing chain and then switching over to the new timing chain. I could still not install the real timing chain right after I get done. But I have broken the procedure down further into modules by only installing the new timing chain at the point when the timing chain should be installed in most situations.

 

[JTownPBX]

I've seen them all. Its when you go off the beaten path. Like Mike1967 Has given me enough information. And it keep reminding me of a video from the UK where they used a right angle level and four straightened out 16 or 18 gauge wire to put in each cylinder and level the pistons in there dead set positioning. But that video covered the procedure from waist height like I was one of the kiebbler elves I could not get a over the top of the engine view therefore I could not see which spanner wrench the guys buddy was using to hold the camshaft solid against the cam lock as his buddy was turning the exhuast and intake cam bolts tight.
Mike1967 said a feeler guage would work as well. I concurred.
the other video's show a mini running. Heck anybody can do that. I could have done that for the views. I have a rightous mellow yellow done up like a JCW. That's not the point. Only one so far has shown follow up of there mini cooper and they had the same mistakes. They took there head to the machinest and then if you watch the series closely they took there engine block back to the machinest and possibly a person for the assembly. I live in a mid western state where no one around here does the assembly I would have to tow miles and pay thousands just for the install of the timing chain.
So no none of the youtube videos show follow up on any of the mini coopers. And only one they have re done sounded like it was done right. And that is because when they did the start on that it had the same tick sound that mini coopers have. Now sure he did do alot of editing through out the rebuild process but the car he installed the engine on was the same color as the one he started.
So anyway that is why I have started this thread for so long. Mike1967 struck a note about the process. And I am sure for rebuilding my engine stock that I should also have a mild ticking if I got the chain on right. Despite having entire new valve train inside the head. there will be a harder same as a mini cooper engine sound if not a ticking that I will recognize.
If not I only have the processes which are told to me here.
See anyone can get the car to start and run. It's that area where the car hardley ever goes only really on the highway. That would be highway driving and a downshift into the other gear(under load).
I have had it running with the timing chain long enough to admit to myself. that if I do get it on there like the first and second time I put it on to just not drive it hard at all anymore. because really it has all it's power back because of the new piston rings. It's like it was when new. Or like a 2004 nissan maxima said on their advertisement commercial back then; "That transmission is so smooth it's like one gear the whole way".
That's how it drove the first time I put the chain on. Like a golf cart only with more power then it had. IT'S THE part where I floor it and it used to go in the gear below the gear I was in and juice the car with about a extra 30 horse. that's the part where my chain lets loose. Just like Mike1967 said people get the timing chain on and say the car was running fine it just happened when I was driving around. Hence what I think Mike1967 is trying to say.
Within the next week I will be working on that engine because I will have my new bolts for the new timing set. And I will post what I have done As I do it.
If everybody could comment on the post and pictures as I post them that would help. Because I will start and not stop working for a series of day's until the job is done or at least the fuel is primed for the new timing set and bolts. because I will be using a new timing set I already had on there from my first attempts to prime the fuel into the high pressure fuel rail. then I will unplugg the battery and get to work replacing that timing set for the real one.

 

[JTownPBX]

So it appears I have to match the timing gear's teeth on the crankshaft with the oil pump gear's teeth on the crankshaft so that the two gears teeth match together side by side. I looked down into my crankcase side of the engine block to check and my timing gear still had the chain on it but the head was off of it. And the oil pump and timing chain gears teeth were staggered!
I gonna be going out there in the garage tomorrow to check the pistons for cracked landings hopefully they will be alright.
I thought mike1967 was gonna leave a number for me to call him on the telephone. Anyway lightly oiled bolts which ones and what type of oil; is what I need to find out next.
In one respect I have learned so much like a transparency that lays over the regular instructions on the install of a timing chain.
I'm gonna try again. I can't wait to have it running again. everyone will finally see my mini here on this site for the first time. though I have been driving it for the last 10 years. Gosh it was some smooth driving on the highway no wind currents 18 inch touring wheels back when it was new. quite inside the cabin talking on the speaker phone this car really was my appointment across a dozen different states. And I will post pictures of it here this time around and share my experience if I ever get a chance to put this timing chain on right again.
either way I have other cars to tend to now as well as this one.

 

[JTownPBX]

Well their are all of different things involved. My gross amount of detail on each thing is in some way a testatmony on how to do it. You are a good mechanic and I am gonna basically do what your explaining this time. And It is just another try.
One thing I noticed I have the correct valve installer and when I took the head off it had a bent valve and a scratchy valve in the valve guide. they were from the first one( number one intake) in the number one cylinder. And the last one in the intake (number two intake). Now I have replaced them and THAT was difficult because of the clearance it does not offer any angle except the right angle. I got a little curve going on my first attempt for number one intake valve. then I stopped immediately and took the retainer and spring off that I was going to install. Checked if I had stressed the valve it went in and out fine. Brand new valve number one intake on cylinder number 1. Installed again perfect. installed the number 2 valve intake cylinder number 4. Perfect.
That is just one example of what this had been. this time I am confident that I will have a solid timing setup. I'm gonna do what you said making sure the testing process is complete. Even though I still can't rightly tell if the valves are dinging the pistons or not as I rotate; but by doing it by hand and watching the cam gears when the compression(even without the spark plugs in it) Is making things turn a bit harder.
I saw a picture of a double gear setup for the mini cooper installation. Like it was a official mechanic note. That was why I brought it up. I will post it later.
the pistons I removed today and set them outside the engine on the work table with a board just under the pistons on under the rods. So that the pistons and rings don't touch anything. gonna use a air sprayer and blow them out. They do not have any broken lands on them. Tomorrow I am installing them with the new rod bolts. Which actually makes me feel alot better because it will be a good consistent torque value and torque angle on them. Rod bearings look fine. So decontamination of the piston assemblies tomorrow. A quick spray of WD 40 and installing them using the 77mm collar ring tool. the valve tool I use is the aries which is recommended by the way.
so I am getting closer to approaching the timing chain. Tomorrow I might be installing the oil pump windage tray and oil pump gears which are new with a new oil pump chain. So in the next two days I will be writing here about that timing chain setup. as I go along. Day after tomorrow. I am gonna extend the procedure so I might be able to get feed back from people here before I get too far into anything.
Biggest thing is my cylinder head and head gasket are correct this time. And there is nothing binding in the head like valves. I still have to tighten down my camshafts also. but will be waiting to that part when the head is installed. So I might be two days away from installing the timing chain. I saw this tool that holds valves down while tightening down camshaft journals. Though it was on a engine that is setup with a more aggressive type of setup. but it makes me wonder if I need a valve spring press. I know that the cam shafts sit very close at a certain position and no one have contested that such a tool should be used.
Correction It might still be another week or so for that timing setup procedure to begin because I am gonna pull the trigger on getting another cam lock tool set One that is a bit more specific for the n14 or at least expensive. I got the money to buy just need to locate one. thinking about ebay from the UK version. cannot remember the name but it starts with a letter A.
Anyway the oil pump setup is going on tomorrow and hopefully I will get the old oil pump gear off the crankshaft. I saw someone with a m3 bmw have a hard time getting his oil pump gear off. thanks for helping me out with that mike. And no that call might be pricey but it is worth it to me if it can get my N14 squared away.

 

[JTownPBX]

So that confirms for me; that if the engine would not rotate. But to also keep in mind what you have said previously that it is much better to slowly turn the engine by way of the harmonic balancer though installing it for that purpose is not as conventional.
Believe me mike1967 I know that what you are saying is that a lot of it is based in years of experience as well as what is stated in the repair manuals. I'm not taking your procedure with a grain of salt by any means.
What I gather from your procedure about the test is that what one would be locating is where the chain rests on the gears and to rotate during the test to make sure that the chain stays at rest in the same area of the tooth(that the chain does not hunt or drift from it's original timing position).

 

[JTownPBX]

So I got the pistons installed into the block today with new rod bolts. and a little assembly lube on the rod bearings. Sense they are new with not even 20 miles worth of driving and or 8 hours of engine running from earlier this summer.
The installation of the pistons took longer than I thought. But it's because of the cleaning process and inspection of the rings and drying everything out. Every time I take apart a car or truck it's always coolant and oil on the insides of the engine(it makes it look messy and me un organized). but I have installed the pistons a few times already throughout this summer and It's the same deal making double sure the rod caps are on right the first time they were. New rod bolts I am feeling good about all this.
I'm trying to switch focus to what I can do right now. Yes it would be great to put the timing chain on but I have to give myself a moment and pat myself on the back over this piston install. It took a lot longer then earlier this summer. but now is no time to take shortcuts. So they are installed. Tomorrow I install the oil pump new oil gears new oil chain, and new oil gear bolt at 44inch pounds and step 2 at 90 degrees. Of course that's after the windage tray at 10 and oil pump bolts at 18pounds.

 

[JTownPBX]

Now I have finally gotten to the point of installing the timing chain as I have stated earlier in this discussion. Where I will report what I am getting ready to do and wait for a response regarding each component with that said.
Lets start:
I am going to install the timing guides with the timing chain and crankshaft gear into the timing bay. I am going to fasten the plastic timing guides first(consisting of three allen key bolt fasteners). Now this is as the book states I will use o-ring silicon grease on each of the three bolts accompanied by there o rings.
Now is this correct anybody out there? Or does anybody do it different?
Then I am going to install the crank hub and crank bolt. Does the crank bolt get lightly greased or is the pale white coating on the threads suitable enough?
I am going to keep the chain out of the way with a long screwdriver holding the timing chain up and away from binding the crank gear. I am going to line the teeth on the oil pump sprocket and timing chain sproket that rest on the crankshaft and crankshaft hub. Then I will begin with the torque procedure.
NOW I AM STILL OPEN FOR ANSWERS ABOUT A ACCURATE TORQUE PROCEDURE FOR THIS BOLT!
Otherwise I will torque the bolt at its recommended torque value. I WILL NOT TORQUE DEGREE THIS BOLT AT THIS TIME. Just the stage 1 part of this procedure.
Then I will wait for a response from anyone that has suggestions about following through with 100 degrees for the the stage 2 or 130 degree's or 180 degrees; or to wait until all three bolts for the gears on the timing chain are torqued and not degreed and engine has been rotated for timing procedure.
Now I relize that the crank bolt might be able to be stage 2 tightened considering the fact that the bolt is the only bolt that this procedure is based upon. Not sure, anybody got any idea's?
At the same time I relize how critical timing procedure is at the cam shaft's. I have my mini 2 inch by 3 inch right angle square machinist tool I will be setting against each camshaft with a mini digital protractor to check the exact degree of each camshaft after rotating the engine four times. I have also the new camshaft locking kit in my possesion and it is in fact for the n14 only and feels alot more robust then the one I had purchased previously. The kit has the four bolts. two camshaft locks only. One for the exhaust one for the intake the flywheel pin and the camshaft locks hold down component. It has never been used and will be double checked by my digital protractor after every four rotations of the engine; as it is the testing procedure that I am doing.
So that is why I included the fourth of 4 questions.
torque to recommended value in the book then:
A: degree at 100 degree's?
B: degree at 130 degree's?
C: degree at 180 degree's
D: wait to degree after the car has passed the four rotations of crankshaft and camshaft lock inspection? For now?
So at this point I will wait for anybody to respond to me about any of this so I will not respond back until I give people ample time to respond to me on this thread. If no one responds I will continue with this section of the procedure and respond back here how I decided to do it.
Thank you everyone that has read and responded to me so far about what they did. Look forward to hearing from mini cooper lovers.

 

[JTownPBX]

Today I have installed the timing Chain. Let me start by saying this could just be a dry run, But I have done it. In either case I will install the timing chain again after I have primed the fuel to the engine meaning letting the car run for about 30 seconds after the three presses of the start button to prime the fuel. Letting the engine even out after it's hard first start, but not letting it get to the point of dieseling /or advancing which would be about 1 minute after the fourth press of the start button.
I have come along way sense last entry here. I got scared when I installed the cylinder head because the camshafts were installed and all, but I had the rotations of them out of wack. Now that does not matter so much. But I took the head back off..then I pulled each valve to check for striaghtness, I installed new valve stem seals and rotated the cam just short of being labels up and installed the head again with new head gasket, I got everything hooked back up as it concerns intake,exhaust,coolant systems.
Now today I started by installing the crank bolt. I spent yesterday and previous days preparing for this, by cleaning all the mating surfaces for the new crank bolt. I then proceeded to install it. After installing the hub and bolt. I tightened the bolt down figure tight. On the top end at the same time I used a assorted seal prybar a smaller one to hold the chain at the top of the cylinder head. I zip tied the slack of the chain so there was no slack at the bottom where the hub and crank gear is at. I did not fastened the plastic guides aside of the cylinder head chain guide bolt. As I had the motor mount in place and installed for the crank bolt tightening sequence. I used a small flashlight and positioned the crank timing gear into place with the oil pump gear lining the teeth up(earlier I had lined the teeth up anyway; I was just double checking).
Once I new the gear were positioned I installed the hub holding tool very carfully using a floor jack under the handle so the hub would not move from it's clocked position. I then proceeded to install the 4x25x 1/8 inch thick piece of metal I had fashioned to the passenger side frame rail that sits to the side right under the crank bolt area. A piece of metal with a half moon cut out at the top to lay the short wrench extension into. I used a quick grip clamp to hold the 1/8 inch thick metal to the rail.
So with the crank holder tool being stopped up loosely by the floor jack under the handle. And the extension brace in place. I put my 18mm socket that I lined with electrical tape on the inside(as to not strip the bolt head) of it onto the crank bolt.
I torqued the bolt down to the recommended value double check my work with an digital torque wrench and it was good. Everything was dry in the area and the bolt in my opinion is secure.
I then went to torque angle it by marking the top of the bolt and rotating it to where the marking was at the bottom 180 degree's.
Now back on the top end of the timing chain. I proceeded to install the gears finger tight. running all the slack of the chain to the tensioner side. At that point with both camshaft gears in place(finger tight); I installed the upper plastic guide.
I then installed the test tensioner measuring it at 65 or 66mm was what I was working with for today <68mm.
I installed the test tensioner at that point I had a friend hold a 27mm spanner wrench pinning the intake camshaft to the camlock by pulling it toward them and holding it. I then tightened the intake camshaft bolt at 15 foot pounds. With them still holding the intake camshaft; I then torqued the exhaust camshaft to 15 pounds.
I used a new camlock kit that looks good it did not come with a test tensioner I figure you really don't need one when you can use a tensioner itself really to lightly set the chain guide into position to tense the chain up anyway.
I used a test tensioner for it anyway. by the book. I torque angled the gears at 180 degree's on the intake and a little heavy on the exhaust at 100 degree's.
At this point if anyone wants to let me know what to do next I am open to hear it(I do have another set of cam fresh cam bolts). aside of that I am ready to roll the engine over tomorrow and reference check the camshafts with the camlocks.
but I do know that right now the flywheel pin is still in it. The cam lock have been taken off it. I used a digital angle meter to check angle of camshafts. I have 89.5 degrees on the intake and I have 89.5 degrees on the exhaust which from what I know is good to go.
One strange thing about my new camlock set is like all of them there is a little bit of play in the intake camlock side; for which is why one uses a spanner wrench to pull toward them as it's being torque, but the exhaust side also has a little bit of play if one uses a spanner wrench on the exhaust to push forward a bit.
When I had the cam lock on the exhaust camshaft, I just really let the exhaust cam rest in it's natural position with the label toward the outside, even though the label could be pushed to the inside and held.
I did not use the spanner on the exhaust cam at all during the torque phase of the gear bolt. but it was held on the intake camshaft the whole time. for the intake tightening and exhaust tightening.
all mating surfaces were also cleaned with brake cleaner with particular detail to the intake vanos. the exhaust camshaft bolt was lightly oiled on a small part of the thread at the very tip of the bolt. meaning that wiped it with a blue shop towell after.