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cristo
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Actually, 5 in-lb is 0.56 N-m,
which is plenty close enough.
I actually have a 1/4 in drive
dial type torque wrench that
goes from 0-15 in-lb, as well
as a socket tool that clicks
and releases at a preset 5 in-lb.
 

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yep in a perfect world a diy repairer would have a accurate torque wretch to set 0.6nm of force on the pretension tool bu at that level just a over used thread on it would not give same torque same as a brand new one with dry thread and oiled thread would give a differnt reading, i also found chain kits would deffer due to the after market tensioer spring having not same force as a factory one or even the latest tensioner has a different force on its spring, hence why better to mimic the load it takes to push chain tight without distorting the guides,, i know this work because i always read the vanos positions with software after like below
 

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Discussion Starter #23
what about the chain each time I re torque from breaking loose let say a intel gear? i would simply push the slack of the chain from that action back into the tensioner side? So I would be re torque with the recommended 22nm of torque to the inlet with the real tensioner in the engine if the test failed at that point?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
What about those guide as it pertains to the test tensioner. Your saying distorting the guide meaning to warp it in some way or another. but you know as well as I that test tensioner makes that guide start to move toward the piston side as you tighten the screw up it looks skewed. Do I stop before it skews the guide. Like the upper guide a lot of people put that on skewed. with the tip closest to them facing closer to the right wheel and the back of the upper guide plastic facing more so toward the air box! Is there a reason for that?
Do I have to somehow register my new hard components with the mini cooper computer on board. Or set the computer on a reset of some sort? Because it's like the engine mechaniclly has all it's faculties. The computer only knows the 105 thousand mile engine and the way it acted before!
below I put a picture of my cylinder head with upper guide perfectly installed. And a pic of the motor with all the new stuff on it. right now the cylinder head is waiting to go back on sense it came back with the new guides installed.
I really want everyone here that feels like they can help. even if it is something non sense I will give it a try. It's better then the other times I tried to proform this procedure. Like when Mike said to oil the bolts does that mean crankshaft bolt also. Is something like ARP type oil in the packet good for that? I know they use it on Rod bolts and head bolts.
 

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but you know as well as I that test tensioner makes that guide start to move toward the piston side as you tighten the screw up it looks skewed ,,
IMPORTANT when you make up the two guides they clip in only one way together,, ie without chain in the middle you look at the pivot point in the middle this joint must be done in a set way as to twist the guides together so they interlink together on back and front of the guides centre pivot
below link might help you
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I get the picture for the most part. I've only done it 4 times now. the problems all seem to be non instruction book related. Like the oiling the bolt part. I remember the book saying don't thread lock the bolt, but your right it did not say don't oil it with like a ARP head stud type oil(If I did I would still have to maintain the dryness of all the other surfaces; and the crank bolt I still don't know; book I think said make sure to not use anything on that).
So I have two new gears to go on the hub with a new crank bolt. someone said they think with doing that it might work this time. It's just another try is the way I see it. But thanks to Mike I will have much more control and inspection over that process that most book and instructions fail to mention in their brief summery of the timing chain. Really they are the same instruction but just breaking them down into modules.
Just like me priming the fuel with a timing chain and then switching over to the new timing chain. I could still not install the real timing chain right after I get done. But I have broken the procedure down further into modules by only installing the new timing chain at the point when the timing chain should be installed in most situations.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I've seen them all. Its when you go off the beaten path. Like Mike1967 Has given me enough information. And it keep reminding me of a video from the UK where they used a right angle level and four straightened out 16 or 18 gauge wire to put in each cylinder and level the pistons in there dead set positioning. But that video covered the procedure from waist height like I was one of the kiebbler elves I could not get a over the top of the engine view therefore I could not see which spanner wrench the guys buddy was using to hold the camshaft solid against the cam lock as his buddy was turning the exhuast and intake cam bolts tight.
Mike1967 said a feeler guage would work as well. I concurred.
the other video's show a mini running. Heck anybody can do that. I could have done that for the views. I have a rightous mellow yellow done up like a JCW. That's not the point. Only one so far has shown follow up of there mini cooper and they had the same mistakes. They took there head to the machinest and then if you watch the series closely they took there engine block back to the machinest and possibly a person for the assembly. I live in a mid western state where no one around here does the assembly I would have to tow miles and pay thousands just for the install of the timing chain.
So no none of the youtube videos show follow up on any of the mini coopers. And only one they have re done sounded like it was done right. And that is because when they did the start on that it had the same tick sound that mini coopers have. Now sure he did do alot of editing through out the rebuild process but the car he installed the engine on was the same color as the one he started.
So anyway that is why I have started this thread for so long. Mike1967 struck a note about the process. And I am sure for rebuilding my engine stock that I should also have a mild ticking if I got the chain on right. Despite having entire new valve train inside the head. there will be a harder same as a mini cooper engine sound if not a ticking that I will recognize.
If not I only have the processes which are told to me here.
See anyone can get the car to start and run. It's that area where the car hardley ever goes only really on the highway. That would be highway driving and a downshift into the other gear(under load).
I have had it running with the timing chain long enough to admit to myself. that if I do get it on there like the first and second time I put it on to just not drive it hard at all anymore. because really it has all it's power back because of the new piston rings. It's like it was when new. Or like a 2004 nissan maxima said on their advertisement commercial back then; "That transmission is so smooth it's like one gear the whole way".
That's how it drove the first time I put the chain on. Like a golf cart only with more power then it had. IT'S THE part where I floor it and it used to go in the gear below the gear I was in and juice the car with about a extra 30 horse. that's the part where my chain lets loose. Just like Mike1967 said people get the timing chain on and say the car was running fine it just happened when I was driving around. Hence what I think Mike1967 is trying to say.
Within the next week I will be working on that engine because I will have my new bolts for the new timing set. And I will post what I have done As I do it.
If everybody could comment on the post and pictures as I post them that would help. Because I will start and not stop working for a series of day's until the job is done or at least the fuel is primed for the new timing set and bolts. because I will be using a new timing set I already had on there from my first attempts to prime the fuel into the high pressure fuel rail. then I will unplugg the battery and get to work replacing that timing set for the real one.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
So it appears I have to match the timing gear's teeth on the crankshaft with the oil pump gear's teeth on the crankshaft so that the two gears teeth match together side by side. I looked down into my crankcase side of the engine block to check and my timing gear still had the chain on it but the head was off of it. And the oil pump and timing chain gears teeth were staggered!
I gonna be going out there in the garage tomorrow to check the pistons for cracked landings hopefully they will be alright.
I thought mike1967 was gonna leave a number for me to call him on the telephone. Anyway lightly oiled bolts which ones and what type of oil; is what I need to find out next.
In one respect I have learned so much like a transparency that lays over the regular instructions on the install of a timing chain.
I'm gonna try again. I can't wait to have it running again. everyone will finally see my mini here on this site for the first time. though I have been driving it for the last 10 years. Gosh it was some smooth driving on the highway no wind currents 18 inch touring wheels back when it was new. quite inside the cabin talking on the speaker phone this car really was my appointment across a dozen different states. And I will post pictures of it here this time around and share my experience if I ever get a chance to put this timing chain on right again.
either way I have other cars to tend to now as well as this one.
 

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it dont matter where the oil chain sprocket sits on crankshaft in ref to the timing chain sprocket. i offered you to call me back when i was off work for a few days and has your in the states and i'm in uk would be a expensive call anyway, also on top of that you also were asking for other peoples input on your chain timing, so i thought i would let others guide you through it, all the info on how to is all in this post. ie what i have wrote is all based on the fact i have been a car tech all my life and have lost count the amount of timing chains i have changed ie the first time and never bent any valves doing so to date,
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Well their are all of different things involved. My gross amount of detail on each thing is in some way a testatmony on how to do it. You are a good mechanic and I am gonna basically do what your explaining this time. And It is just another try.
One thing I noticed I have the correct valve installer and when I took the head off it had a bent valve and a scratchy valve in the valve guide. they were from the first one( number one intake) in the number one cylinder. And the last one in the intake (number two intake). Now I have replaced them and THAT was difficult because of the clearance it does not offer any angle except the right angle. I got a little curve going on my first attempt for number one intake valve. then I stopped immediately and took the retainer and spring off that I was going to install. Checked if I had stressed the valve it went in and out fine. Brand new valve number one intake on cylinder number 1. Installed again perfect. installed the number 2 valve intake cylinder number 4. Perfect.
That is just one example of what this had been. this time I am confident that I will have a solid timing setup. I'm gonna do what you said making sure the testing process is complete. Even though I still can't rightly tell if the valves are dinging the pistons or not as I rotate; but by doing it by hand and watching the cam gears when the compression(even without the spark plugs in it) Is making things turn a bit harder.
I saw a picture of a double gear setup for the mini cooper installation. Like it was a official mechanic note. That was why I brought it up. I will post it later.
the pistons I removed today and set them outside the engine on the work table with a board just under the pistons on under the rods. So that the pistons and rings don't touch anything. gonna use a air sprayer and blow them out. They do not have any broken lands on them. Tomorrow I am installing them with the new rod bolts. Which actually makes me feel alot better because it will be a good consistent torque value and torque angle on them. Rod bearings look fine. So decontamination of the piston assemblies tomorrow. A quick spray of WD 40 and installing them using the 77mm collar ring tool. the valve tool I use is the aries which is recommended by the way.
so I am getting closer to approaching the timing chain. Tomorrow I might be installing the oil pump windage tray and oil pump gears which are new with a new oil pump chain. So in the next two days I will be writing here about that timing chain setup. as I go along. Day after tomorrow. I am gonna extend the procedure so I might be able to get feed back from people here before I get too far into anything.
Biggest thing is my cylinder head and head gasket are correct this time. And there is nothing binding in the head like valves. I still have to tighten down my camshafts also. but will be waiting to that part when the head is installed. So I might be two days away from installing the timing chain. I saw this tool that holds valves down while tightening down camshaft journals. Though it was on a engine that is setup with a more aggressive type of setup. but it makes me wonder if I need a valve spring press. I know that the cam shafts sit very close at a certain position and no one have contested that such a tool should be used.
Correction It might still be another week or so for that timing setup procedure to begin because I am gonna pull the trigger on getting another cam lock tool set One that is a bit more specific for the n14 or at least expensive. I got the money to buy just need to locate one. thinking about ebay from the UK version. cannot remember the name but it starts with a letter A.
Anyway the oil pump setup is going on tomorrow and hopefully I will get the old oil pump gear off the crankshaft. I saw someone with a m3 bmw have a hard time getting his oil pump gear off. thanks for helping me out with that mike. And no that call might be pricey but it is worth it to me if it can get my N14 squared away.
 

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I still can't rightly tell if the valves are dinging the pistons or not as I rotate; answer to this is when turn crankshaft by the 18mm crank pulley bolt clockwise only by hand slowly if anything touches you will know has it will stop turning,
 

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Discussion Starter #35
So that confirms for me; that if the engine would not rotate. But to also keep in mind what you have said previously that it is much better to slowly turn the engine by way of the harmonic balancer though installing it for that purpose is not as conventional.
Believe me mike1967 I know that what you are saying is that a lot of it is based in years of experience as well as what is stated in the repair manuals. I'm not taking your procedure with a grain of salt by any means.
What I gather from your procedure about the test is that what one would be locating is where the chain rests on the gears and to rotate during the test to make sure that the chain stays at rest in the same area of the tooth(that the chain does not hunt or drift from it's original timing position).
 

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Discussion Starter #36
So I got the pistons installed into the block today with new rod bolts. and a little assembly lube on the rod bearings. Sense they are new with not even 20 miles worth of driving and or 8 hours of engine running from earlier this summer.
The installation of the pistons took longer than I thought. But it's because of the cleaning process and inspection of the rings and drying everything out. Every time I take apart a car or truck it's always coolant and oil on the insides of the engine(it makes it look messy and me un organized). but I have installed the pistons a few times already throughout this summer and It's the same deal making double sure the rod caps are on right the first time they were. New rod bolts I am feeling good about all this.
I'm trying to switch focus to what I can do right now. Yes it would be great to put the timing chain on but I have to give myself a moment and pat myself on the back over this piston install. It took a lot longer then earlier this summer. but now is no time to take shortcuts. So they are installed. Tomorrow I install the oil pump new oil gears new oil chain, and new oil gear bolt at 44inch pounds and step 2 at 90 degrees. Of course that's after the windage tray at 10 and oil pump bolts at 18pounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Now I have finally gotten to the point of installing the timing chain as I have stated earlier in this discussion. Where I will report what I am getting ready to do and wait for a response regarding each component with that said.
Lets start:
I am going to install the timing guides with the timing chain and crankshaft gear into the timing bay. I am going to fasten the plastic timing guides first(consisting of three allen key bolt fasteners). Now this is as the book states I will use o-ring silicon grease on each of the three bolts accompanied by there o rings.
Now is this correct anybody out there? Or does anybody do it different?
Then I am going to install the crank hub and crank bolt. Does the crank bolt get lightly greased or is the pale white coating on the threads suitable enough?
I am going to keep the chain out of the way with a long screwdriver holding the timing chain up and away from binding the crank gear. I am going to line the teeth on the oil pump sprocket and timing chain sproket that rest on the crankshaft and crankshaft hub. Then I will begin with the torque procedure.
NOW I AM STILL OPEN FOR ANSWERS ABOUT A ACCURATE TORQUE PROCEDURE FOR THIS BOLT!
Otherwise I will torque the bolt at its recommended torque value. I WILL NOT TORQUE DEGREE THIS BOLT AT THIS TIME. Just the stage 1 part of this procedure.
Then I will wait for a response from anyone that has suggestions about following through with 100 degrees for the the stage 2 or 130 degree's or 180 degrees; or to wait until all three bolts for the gears on the timing chain are torqued and not degreed and engine has been rotated for timing procedure.
Now I relize that the crank bolt might be able to be stage 2 tightened considering the fact that the bolt is the only bolt that this procedure is based upon. Not sure, anybody got any idea's?
At the same time I relize how critical timing procedure is at the cam shaft's. I have my mini 2 inch by 3 inch right angle square machinist tool I will be setting against each camshaft with a mini digital protractor to check the exact degree of each camshaft after rotating the engine four times. I have also the new camshaft locking kit in my possesion and it is in fact for the n14 only and feels alot more robust then the one I had purchased previously. The kit has the four bolts. two camshaft locks only. One for the exhaust one for the intake the flywheel pin and the camshaft locks hold down component. It has never been used and will be double checked by my digital protractor after every four rotations of the engine; as it is the testing procedure that I am doing.
So that is why I included the fourth of 4 questions.
torque to recommended value in the book then:
A: degree at 100 degree's?
B: degree at 130 degree's?
C: degree at 180 degree's
D: wait to degree after the car has passed the four rotations of crankshaft and camshaft lock inspection? For now?
So at this point I will wait for anybody to respond to me about any of this so I will not respond back until I give people ample time to respond to me on this thread. If no one responds I will continue with this section of the procedure and respond back here how I decided to do it.
Thank you everyone that has read and responded to me so far about what they did. Look forward to hearing from mini cooper lovers.
 

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1, the two side guides must interlock together if look at centre pivot point you will notice they can only clip together correctly one by rotating one guide while ensuring the clip together,, on both sides of the pivot, and yes a dad of sealer on the 4 guide posts,
below are screen shots of all the info and picture for timing chain replacement
 

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use what have added in pictures as your ref for doing the chain as what you have wrote about what ever your using i.m now confused with that,, the pics i posted are what we in the trade use to do these jobs so are 100% correct,
 
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