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Discussion Starter #41
Whilst waiting for my software to arrive, I was thinking of ordering 4 camshaft O rings to replace them as a precation. What is the technique for replacing them? Do the camshafts have to be completely removed or can they just be loosened slightly and raised a bit?
 

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i have always removed them and done off car treat them like you would to fit piston rings thats how i do them also lag is grease and oil helps and i use a spike tool like dont try and bend them will snap what can help a lot is put camshaft in freezer over night and heat the new oil rings before fitting them ie cam with shrink a tad and rings will expand a tad all helps to fit them, believe latest spec ones are plastic
 

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you will find when striping the camshaft off you will come up against the vvt springs and cam followers hmmm now the very first time i did a lot of swearing and trying different ways to remove the single torx bolt that holds the spring in place ,, hmmm bmw want over £400 for special tools for it,, cheapest Chinese tool £120,,, ha ha way way is nearly free and works a treat,, old head bolt, two long reach ring and open end spanners and a old door hinge cut in to a metal strip to thread through the spring and post ,, and locate the ring spanners through the head bolt or long bolts through the spring coils pics below,, can lever the springs down on to the post where the torx bolts lives,,,, MUST ENSURE ALL FOLLOWERS ARE LOCATED CORRECTLY ON VALVES AND POSTS ETC,
pics below
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Discussion Starter #45
Erm....Maybe this is a lot more involved than I anticipated. I think maybe I shouldn't attempt removing the camshafts unless I really, really need to. Thank you again for taking the time to explain it all.
 

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ho sorry i keep forgetting i sort of take for granted peoples level of mechanical know-how and tools needed etc,, yes you would need a timing chain locking kit, new cam shafts bolts and crank bolt as well as well as getting head around removing the vvt assembly and putting it back together again,, have seen the odd engine over years where a garage has had a go at it and asked me to pop over and have a look and find things never went back together correctly or a faulty vvt follower was the issue and had bent a valve twice etc, but on the other hand i also see this stuff like its man made so any man can work them out with a camera phone or video phone good video it from all angles before striping them so know how things sit and go back together etc. thats how i have always worked on new stuff the first few times, think one of the hardest head f...ck was bmw M5 v10 years ago with burnt out inlet valve that was a good week on that and some late nights, just imagine getting the timing wrong on that 10 cylinders and a lot of very expensive valves as well nothing on those engines is cheap and all is very small compared to 4 cylinder engines the valve collets on tiny but nothing a tub of vaseline and a dentist spike toll and magnet cant sort lol,, without a phone and video it would of been so much worse to work out where it all goes etc, did decide after i would avoid the big complicated engines as more hassle than they are worth everything takes so much longer
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Yes, it's the VVT springs that put me off. I don't mind having a go at most jobs (I used to be an aircraft technician in the RAF) but I don't think I'll replace the canshaft oil seals unless I have no option. That BMW sounds like a total nightmare.
 

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Yes, it's the VVT springs that put me off. I don't mind having a go at most jobs (I used to be an aircraft technician in the RAF) but I don't think I'll replace the canshaft oil seals unless I have no option. That BMW sounds like a total nightmare.
the vvt springs just look harder than they are really like anything that not known its just working out the process involved to complete the goals lol, but that trick with spanners and plate and bar etc works a treat makes the job really easy to be honest, one pair of hands can easy do it, the spring loads are not to high ie one hand can easy push the spanners downwards while other deals with the torx bolt on top. no need to mark which goes where just make note of where the spring arms go on the follower as such if you do find it needs pulling apart, that m5 motor is on a another level but some of the latest stuff for vag group has gone nuts with v8 W16 stuff i've got to that age where i avoid stuff i cant be bothered with these days,, i pck on the prince engines just because they have their issues and there are so many of them on the road and most garages avoid them if they can as are so complicated to work out whats causing the issues as everything is all reliant on other parts etc, another 10 years it will be all motors and mobile electric shock or fire issues i guess,, will be avoiding all that like the clap lol
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Right, so I eventually managed to get the software up and running and I've monitored the actual vanos positions against the specified vanos positions. I'm not really sure what's going on here. The specified values don't seem to change at all. The actual exhaust position seems a bit unsteady, however the fault code related to the inlet cam. What does this mean? Screenshots attached.
 

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so its at least 2 degrees out all the chains i have replaced over the years have ended within 1 degree so there something moved , that fault code have had that one before and sometimes was vanos sprocket was at fault sometimes was the oil control ring in first journal some times was the vac pump on the other end of cam shaft and a gone slack chain tensioner can have a effect on it as well, when the oil control ring goes south they will squirt a lot of oil out of that union,, have also seen head damage on the oil control ring journals before
 

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one added thing redo live data engine on idle then rev engine has hard as car while having the vanos readings on it these should match each other when rev'd and the actual should change in real time, if dont totally dead then i would say it oil feed issue to vanos or oil leaking off somewhere in system or a oil solonoid faulty maybe,, heads up cheap oil valves are rubbish cant be trusted seen many new out of box cause issues genuine only best bet,
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Thanks Mike. I actually drove the car whilst watching the data graphs (cos I couldn't figure out how to do the flight recorder thingy). The values stayed pretty much as you see them, regardless of revs, which I thought was weird. The specified positions never moved from 122.
 

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so deffo have a vanos issue or oil feed to it issue, i have a strange one a few weeks ago bit like this on a citreon with smame engine in it,, guy had fitted new timing chain with vanos sprockets and bought the cheapest he could find,, ie made is Taiwan off ebay these have a TG and number printed on them,,, i found car would not idle right i also got map/maff sensor faults on it was a proper mare as you would thing a new kit 1000 miles ago it would be the last place to look for the issue,, i found when reving it very hard on over run it would make chain noises and would throw the codes for inlet pressure faults etc,, turned out this car had been over heated at some point and this had damaged the chain tensioner and inlet vanos ,,, or they were cheap shit that should never of been used in first place the second view is where i'm at with it, anyway the no spring effect in tensioner had over the mileage and heat damaged the inlet vanos or was restricting it from rotation,, could of been either i did not take the chance and just replaced the timing chain and vanos with genuine ones and car is now well,, genuine febi bilsteen timing chain kits are good, ie OM, FAI genuine ones are also good,,, Peugeot Citroen are same parts sometimes cheaper,,,
as for your reading when running actual position should match the prescribed with no more than 1 degrees
 

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Discussion Starter #54
So do you think there are 2 issues here: one being the timing is out and needs to be reset and the other being an oil feed to vanos issues? What do you suggest as a plan of action? Reset the timing using my Laser tool and see how that goes?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
The chain was replaced with a Febi one only 3000 miles ago and the tensioner was also replaced with a genuine BMW Mini item, so I'm hoping that it can't be either of these?
 

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febi i seen in a trade mag they are bmw mini chain supplier ie they source the chain gear from them as i understand it. so is ass good as genuine of not genuine as such,,
with this citreon what i found i removed the rocker cover and pushed the chain with long lever bar where the tensioner is and with this citreon the tensioner would not spring all way in or infact in whatsoever just locked up solid,,, see when the engine comes on and off load the tensioner needs to give a bit to allow both vanos sprockets room to move with in the chain mech,, if chain is so tight it cant do this it will cause what you have,, ie must fit latest chain tenioner its smoother and longer so much better,, there are no after market ones available like the genuine ones where the spring rate has been reduced to remove so much force on the chain and has a holding the vanos sprockets back at worst,
i would swap oil control valves around from inlet to exhaust see if fault moves,, if does then thats the issue, i stick a little camera in oil filler hole and watch the journal for how much oil it spills from it,,, ie the ones that shoot oil out a lot and faulty and will prevent the oil pressure 30- 80psi ish needed for vanos to rotate.. very common for oil rings to fail very common form them once failed to rotate in the journal and this will effect the head its self i do know of a few heads that had to be replaced due to this issue,, hopefully yours dont have grooves in the head surface,, as its on exhaust cam its easy job to pull camshaft the journals are numbered and direction is important take pics before pulling off,,
so if were me i would hit it like this, 1 replace the vanos anyway as no point redoing this again also do the oil control ring or second camshaft with rings on it mike work or buy new rings,, but if head is grooved from wear they have spun its another head,, if you can find one thats any good, chances are new rings will have enough tolerance to remove the lost bit in grooved head if not to bad maybe, if its that of course,
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Thanks again Mike. I've already swapped the vanos solenoids over and the fault didn't transfer but I just replaced them both anyway, so that's already done. The fault remained the same. I'll check the tensioner. That would be an easy fix if it was that, however I'd be annoyed if it was the tensioner as it cost me £80 from BMW less than a year ago. I don't have a fancy camera to look at the camshaft journal so I guess I'll just have to take the cap closest to the vanos sprocket off and inspect the oil seals. Thanks again for the action plan. I really appreciate your help.
 

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below link cheap option cable tie to old metal coat hanger as such and plug in to phone or laptop really cheap way of seeing stuff inside stuff lol,
 

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it will run sort of idle will be jumpy wont hurt nothing, might need someone to keep it running on throttle while you look to see what oil comes away from the front journals,, my cooper s i rebuilt not so long ago dont over load the top end in oil as such so very small wear as my oil pressure is north or 70psi when hot, but i do run it on 5/40w fully synthetic oil as i feel that this thicker when hot oil controls the oil system better when get hammered and temps get up 112c thats 12c above where the oil is tested to ie 100c , product of this is more limited oil volume and higher pressure as these two things are different beasts as such, in 1000 miles and so of those have been hammered hard ie over 6k revs its used next to zero oil, where i have had other cooper s n14 cars in past on 5/30w under 30k on clock and used over 1 litre of oil to 800-1000 miles,, also i'm not running catch cans at mo so would say its fairly healthy finally,
 
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