MINI Cooper Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Running in a factory works???????

Read an article on here that recomended the not so softly approach!!

Why then does Mini officially recommend to saty below 4k revs for first 1200 miles??

What did you guys do?

Cheers

Tobes
 

·
www.tiovicente*****
Joined
·
130 Posts
Are you referring to the article I posted here...

Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

As far as any manufacturer is concerned, their faith in the average numpty on the street is limited in terms of both knowledge and ability to follow the correct running in procedure, hence their note of caution.

In essence, what you're doing is isolating the engine (if you follow the described procedure) and sealing the pistons/rings whilst minimising the risks to other drivers by not accelerating/decelerating on a busy public highway. Obviously, you need to do this in the correct environment - away from other traffic. As far as other parts of the drivetrain such as transmission, brakes, drive shafts and other ancillaries are concerned its probably best to adopt a gentler approach hence the advice from MINI and other OEMs to restrict the revs to 4k, or whatever.

What the chap in the article is advocating is nothing that any race engine doesn't go through and is a similar procedure to the running in (on an engine dyno) that Lamborghini, Ferrari and others do all perfectly safely and in a correct fashion. Obviously, the mass market manufacturers can't follow this procedure due to numbers and sheer cost but carried out correctly it isn't going to harm your engine - quite the opposite.
 

·
www.tiovicente*****
Joined
·
130 Posts
I should add that I'm far more careful than the average owner when it comes to warming up and cooling down engines, particularly turbocharged ones. To give you an idea, I live five miles from a motorway and won't use more than 3.5k revs driving to the motorway and then it'll be a good ten minutes before I even consider the engine to be up to temperature and even then won't go over 6000 rpm - probably twenty minutes of stop/start/motorway combined driving before I'll go anywhere near the 8k limit.

Conversely, particularly with the JCW I'll back right off at least five miles from home, sling it in sixth and let plenty of cool air and heat dissipate leaving the engine/brakes as cool as possible before swithching the engine off.

Lastly, I don't care what the manufacturer says - there's no way I'm leaving a brand new engine to wallow in its own crappy oil for 20k so after the first 6-700 miles it gets an oil change. The last time I did this with a company car the oil was like bitumen and there's no way that was healthy, although it helps to make the TLC pay for itself with lower service intervals.
 

·
Factory JCW
Joined
·
658 Posts
This was a question i asked some time ago too, apparentley though the engines at the factory are already run and reved up to test before they leave . I know the manufactuer says to take it easy in the handbooks, but think what happens to the demo cars, there not run in ;)

its down to your own personnel prefrence at the end of the day, i ran in mine till 500 miles, gradually increasing the revs , after that just normal driving ;)

Surley if you just drive it gentley for the first 1200 miles then drive it fast after that will do more harm then good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I should add that I'm far more careful than the average owner when it comes to warming up and cooling down engines, particularly turbocharged ones. To give you an idea, I live five miles from a motorway and won't use more than 3.5k revs driving to the motorway and then it'll be a good ten minutes before I even consider the engine to be up to temperature and even then won't go over 6000 rpm - probably twenty minutes of stop/start/motorway combined driving before I'll go anywhere near the 8k limit.

Conversely, particularly with the JCW I'll back right off at least five miles from home, sling it in sixth and let plenty of cool air and heat dissipate leaving the engine/brakes as cool as possible before swithching the engine off.

Lastly, I don't care what the manufacturer says - there's no way I'm leaving a brand new engine to wallow in its own crappy oil for 20k so after the first 6-700 miles it gets an oil change. The last time I did this with a company car the oil was like bitumen and there's no way that was healthy, although it helps to make the TLC pay for itself with lower service intervals.

:aargh:

6k - 8k rpm? Those are very high r.p.m. limits to be hitting! Even 3.5k r.p.m. is very high - I don't go over 2.5k r.p.m. usually....
 

·
Loving his JCW!!!
Joined
·
274 Posts
:aargh:

6k - 8k rpm? Those are very high r.p.m. limits to be hitting! Even 3.5k r.p.m. is very high - I don't go over 2.5k r.p.m. usually....
I hope youre suggesting that you think 3.5k rpm is high for running in a car (though i dont agree), and not fot day to day use, because i if you owned a JCW i bet you'd spend most of the time well above 2.5k rpm :D. In fact i think most people would in any mini including even the Dooper.
 

·
Range Rover SDV8!
Range Rover SDV8, Triumph Tiger & Triumph Trophy
Joined
·
5,172 Posts
Lastly, I don't care what the manufacturer says - there's no way I'm leaving a brand new engine to wallow in its own crappy oil for 20k so after the first 6-700 miles it gets an oil change. The last time I did this with a company car the oil was like bitumen and there's no way that was healthy
Completely agree with you there. The extended oil change intervals are a completely horrible idea and much more to do with giving the misleading impression of very low running costs at the point of sale. There is no way that a "TLC" package could be offered for just £150 to cover all the oil changes that are actually needed over the first 50,000 miles without skimping horribly.

As an experiment, I'm running my new company car to the newly extended 18,000 mile oil change intervals (my previous two versions of exactly the same car had 12,000 mile intervals); though it is running well enough, at 25,000 miles the engine is a good deal noisier than either of the previous ones were when I parted with them at 55,000 and 75,000 miles each :( My old company used to run a fleet of Astra vans with 20,000 mile services. They were reliable enough at 100,000 miles, but boy, were they rattly bags of oil nails to drive :(

If you are planning on keeping the car long term, I'd do the first oil change somewhere between 500 and 3,000 miles (depending on how you feel about it) and then do interim oil and filter changes at 6-8,000 mile intervals after that. This is what I am doing with mine as I hope to keep it for 200 - 250,000 miles :D

Tigger.
 

·
Rocking the F57
Joined
·
17,719 Posts
Agree with Tigger on the oil changes.... interim changes I believe are beneficial ;)

I haven't studied the service schedule on the R56 or Factory Works in any great detail, but if it's anything like the 1st Gen MINI, most major consumables (spark plugs, air filter, ignition leads etc) don't get looked at until 50k miles... I change my air filter every 8-10k miles, and plugs and leads every 20k miles ;)

Anyway, we're digressing off topic here, so back to running in :p I can't comment on my Cooper S as I bought it with 8k miles on the clock, but on my Cabrio it was treated like a naughty child from word go... ;) It was a very quick car (for a Cooper) as a result :p I'm not sure what this harsh treatment did to the engine life expectancy, but since I wasn't planning on keeping her past 60k miles, it really didn't matter to me ;)

So if you're not planning on keeping your car for ever and a day, for sure take it easy for a couple of hundred miles to bed in brakes, shocks, gearbox etc - then enjoy Cowleys finest :D

Drive it like you stole it :p ;)
 

·
Waiting for Works Clubman
Joined
·
338 Posts
My current S was run in gently - as were my previous A-series Minis. The car now has 130,000 miles on the clock, and has no problems at all in the engine department - it's never been dyno'd, and it might have lost some performance, but it doesn't feel any slower than it used to be.

But I did change the oil and filter after the first 500 or 1,000 miles (I can't now remember which it was). Like others, I can't see how keeping the original oil for the first 20,000 miles can be anything other than bad for the car.
 

·
Mini Design Philosopher
Joined
·
1,028 Posts
I think it depends on whether you're aiming for long term reliability or performance.

If you want the car to last several hundred thousand miles, stick to the run-in schedule and service the car on a regular basis.

If you want to extract the best performance from the car, then take it relatively easy within the first thousand miles but redline the car on a few occasions. The engine will probably still last the life of the vehicle given most end up on the scrap heap before they reach 15 years old / 150,000 miles - but as Tigger says may not be as smooth.

I have had two MINIs now, and with both I pushed them harder than recommended during the run-in.

Car 1: R50 Cooper, manufacturer claimed power = 115bhp, actual tested on rolling road = 125bhp, after 60,000 miles the engine was as sweet as ever

Car 2: R56 Cooper S, manufacturer claimed power = 175bhp, actual tested on rolling road = 191bhp, after 21,000 miles the car feels truly rapid with excellent fuel economy :D:D:D
 

·
www.tiovicente*****
Joined
·
130 Posts
I think it depends on whether you're aiming for long term reliability or performance.

If you want the car to last several hundred thousand miles, stick to the run-in schedule and service the car on a regular basis.

If you want to extract the best performance from the car, then take it relatively easy within the first thousand miles but redline the car on a few occasions. The engine will probably still last the life of the vehicle given most end up on the scrap heap before they reach 15 years old / 150,000 miles - but as Tigger says may not be as smooth.

I have had two MINIs now, and with both I pushed them harder than recommended during the run-in.

Car 1: R50 Cooper, manufacturer claimed power = 115bhp, actual tested on rolling road = 125bhp, after 60,000 miles the engine was as sweet as ever

Car 2: R56 Cooper S, manufacturer claimed power = 175bhp, actual tested on rolling road = 191bhp, after 21,000 miles the car feels truly rapid with excellent fuel economy :D:D:D
Which contradicts everything explained in the article. If you want performance and longevity then give it a good caning as per the aforementioned article but realistically how many cars complete several thousand miles - very few.

To put it into context, I followed the described method with an Impreza I ran on stock internals but with remap, exhaust and many other goodies which produced circa 320bhp and managed to get just over 100k miles in three years - that was stock internals with no modification so a 50% hike over the standard engine which is a great testament to this running in procedure.
 

·
Mini Design Philosopher
Joined
·
1,028 Posts
Which contradicts everything explained in the article. If you want performance and longevity then give it a good caning as per the aforementioned article but realistically how many cars complete several thousand miles - very few.

To put it into context, I followed the described method with an Impreza I ran on stock internals but with remap, exhaust and many other goodies which produced circa 320bhp and managed to get just over 100k miles in three years - that was stock internals with no modification so a 50% hike over the standard engine which is a great testament to this running in procedure.
It doesn't contradict the article because I think we're talking about different aspects of running in. I am also going to add that I am not a mechanical engineer, and do not claim to be. The article talks about sealing the pistons/rings within the first 20 miles. I think this would be difficult to achieve in reality since most cars when delivered new have at least 5-10 miles on them (testing at manufacturing stage, driving by dealer between inspection/delivery compounds and dealers), and when you take delivery you would probably want to run the car for several miles allowing it to warm before following this procedure anyway? - by which time the window of opportunity is passing?

I didn't redline the cars within the first 20 miles, but I did redline the cars on occasion pushing the cars harder than recommended in the handbook within the first thousand miles and as a result I think the engines have performed better, they certainly haven't performed worse.
 

·
www.tiovicente*****
Joined
·
130 Posts
It doesn't contradict the article because I think we're talking about different aspects of running in. I am also going to add that I am not a mechanical engineer, and do not claim to be. The article talks about sealing the pistons/rings within the first 20 miles. I think this would be difficult to achieve in reality since most cars when delivered new have at least 5-10 miles on them (testing at manufacturing stage, driving by dealer between inspection/delivery compounds and dealers), and when you take delivery you would probably want to run the car for several miles allowing it to warm before following this procedure anyway? - by which time the window of opportunity is passing?

I didn't redline the cars within the first 20 miles, but I did redline the cars on occasion pushing the cars harder than recommended in the handbook within the first thousand miles and as a result I think the engines have performed better, they certainly haven't performed worse.
I see your point but personally I've never taken delivery of a car with more than 3-5 miles on it but maybe I'm just lucky. However, the trick is is to almost hit the limiter and the allow engine deceleration to bring the speed back down and repeat several times so its not neccessarily about 'redlining' it although its a useful explanation.
 

·
Factory JCW
Joined
·
658 Posts
Also do you think that the cars that have under 20 miles on them have been driven softly by the delivery drivers/ sales persons... I think NOT..in fact i know they dont..;)
 

·
Derv? Nein Danke.
Joined
·
130 Posts
For all you guys who think their car has only done the 5 -20 miles on the clock on delivery...............................

I've worked at Alconbury Airfield near Cambridge which preps Astons, Range Rovers, Fords etc before being delivered to the dealers. They had hundreds of new Mondeos sat there months before the car was officially launched.
There are thousands of cars there, and a couple of aircraft hangers that are dedicated spray shops. The spray shops are repairing minor dents and bodyt work damage on NEW cars.
Chatting to the guys there, all the cars are delivered to them with a basic software on the car that just enables the engine to be started and run round the airfield to the different departments. During this state the mileometer doesn't operate interestingly and only gets enabled along with the rest of the cars systems when it gets it pre-delivery preparation. It was quite an eye opening experience to see all these new vehicles ragged round the huge airfield with the potential buyers unaware what their new pride and joy had been through previous to their receiving them.

You can probably imagine how much the Astons got driven by the various workers. :wink: :biggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I think I'll go with option b and rev the ring (geddit?) out of it from day one.

Early oil change FTW as well.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top