The Danger of Dubs (aka oversized wheels)

2697 Views 17 Replies 11 Participants Last post by RallyMINI, Feb 15, 2005

milliethemini

Discussion Starter · Feb 2, 2005

Just read an excellent article on oversized wheels, known as dubs or blades in North America, in the Edmunds.com website:

"Dubs. Blades. Twenties. Rims. Unless you've been hiding under a rock for the past five years, you already know those weird words are nicknames for gigantic wheels. What started as an oddity at the occasional car show has evolved.................................."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=104526?tid=edmunds.h..insideline.promo.2.*#

This paragraph in the article really caught my eye, because it's something we don't think about when putting on plus sized wheels:

"Moving to a taller wheel and tire package can affect more than ride, handling and braking. Onboard electronics in new cars and trucks calculate vehicle speed based on the overall diameter of the wheel, the final drive ratio of the axle and how fast the wheel is turning. Changing the height wreaks havoc with these computations, and as a result the speedometer is no longer accurate.

Since safety systems like antilock brakes and stability control rely on speed data to keep the vehicle from getting out of control, their ability to function properly is drastically decreased. Throw in added variables like altered wheel mass and tire grip, and the systems many people pay extra for are no longer effective."

Definitely food for thought, while we are thinking about what to shod our MINIs with

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

haroldchrismeyer

· #2 · Feb 2, 2005

This is not altogether true. The antilock and stability systems do moniter speed, but they moniter all four wheels. These systems look for a change in a pattern that is in the program, such as a rapid change on one wheel. An example of this is you are traveling at 60 with big wheels, so your speedo actually reads 50. One wheel sensor starts reading 15 when you have the brake applied, so the antilock computer assumes that wheel is locked up, and takes action to unlock it. Doesn't matter that you are going 60 and your speedo reads 50, what matters is that rapid change. Even if you have different size tires on different locations on the car, when you push that little button to reset the system, it calibrates to the diameter of each wheel.

What does change is center of gravity, along with suspension angles, which can make for dangerous driving.

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62Lincoln

· #3 · Feb 2, 2005

milliethemini said:
Onboard electronics in new cars and trucks calculate vehicle speed based on the overall diameter of the wheel, the final drive ratio of the axle and how fast the wheel is turning. Changing the height wreaks havoc with these computations, and as a result the speedometer is no longer accurate.

Most of us going with larger (or even smaller) wheels keep the overall height and circumference as close to stock as possible. A website such as this makes the comparison fairly simple: http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp?action=submit

I do see the point of the Edmunds article, but I really don't think it applies to most MINI enthusiasts for the reason stated above. Cadillac Escalades, on the other hand...

obehave

· #4 · Feb 2, 2005

Survival of the least ignorant.

Evolution at it's best.

RickB

· #5 · Feb 2, 2005

In what part of North America are large wheels and/or tires called "dubs" or "blades"? I've never heard either term before.

KJ_daGreenMini

· #6 · Feb 3, 2005

RickB said:
In what part of North America are large wheels and/or tires called "dubs" or "blades"? I've never heard either term before.

thats cos in Seattle, folk still roll on 40inches with their wagons

nah, its been used for a while. Dubs technically describe wheels that are 20inches or more usually in areas that have big cruise / modifying scenes. i havent heard of blades though to be honest.

obehave

· #7 · Feb 4, 2005

RickB said:
In what part of North America are large wheels and/or tires called "dubs" or "blades"? I've never heard either term before.

The stupid parts.
Very localized

ImaVunDerBrah

· #8 · Feb 4, 2005

RickB said:
In what part of North America are large wheels and/or tires called "dubs" or "blades"? I've never heard either term before.

dubs has definatley been around for a few years. Blades I haven't heard nearly as much.

DUB magazine - http://www.dubmagazine.com/

milliethemini

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 4, 2005

ImaVunDerBrah said:
dubs has definatley been around for a few years. Blades I haven't heard nearly as much.

DUB magazine - http://www.dubmagazine.com/

ImaVunDerBrah, that's actually quite a well-done magazine web-site - I guess 'bling bling' isn't just limited to tacky jewelry and lots of precious gems

The illogical rationale behind such huge wheels aside, I get the impression that such huge wheels are meant for a shameless display of urban wealth and status, and wouldn't be something that should be used on a daily driver. Look at the kind of people who have them - urban music artists, high profile athletes and celebrities, etc. And most of them would be using them on the highways and well-paved roads, and more for showing off than the daily commute. I can't imagine that anyone who had a vehicle with such wheels could tolerate driving all over the place day in and day out without a regular visit to the chiropractor

obehave

· #10 · Feb 4, 2005

milliethemini said:
ImaVunDerBrah, that's actually quite a well-done magazine web-site - I guess 'bling bling' isn't just limited to tacky jewelry and lots of precious gems

The illogical rationale behind such huge wheels aside, I get the impression that such huge wheels are meant for a shameless display of urban wealth and status, and wouldn't be something that should be used on a daily driver. Look at the kind of people who have them - urban music artists, high profile athletes and celebrities, etc. And most of them would be using them on the highways and well-paved roads, and more for showing off than the daily commute. I can't imagine that anyone who had a vehicle with such wheels could tolerate driving all over the place day in and day out without a regular visit to the chiropractor

Kinda like people putting 18s and 19s on a MINI

KJ_daGreenMini

· #11 · Feb 5, 2005

that Dub Edition 300C is stunning!

daddy_fizz

· #12 · Feb 7, 2005

as i have been reading more and more about this (as i look into purchasing 17" for my mini) this seems as if it would apply more for larger trucks/SUV's that are having a drastic change in tire size. for a mini cooper going from 15 to 17 (and say 205/40 instead of 205/45) the difference from stock size is going to be very small and will only set your speedo off by 2 mph at 60 mph, hadly enough i would think to change the ABS or other systems drastically....

~fizz

Hmmmm

· #13 · Feb 7, 2005

pmsl - www.dubmagazine.com

For Chavs with more cash.... There are lots of things that money can buy - class and taste are obviously not for sale!

Good edmunds article though.

obehave

· #14 · Feb 7, 2005

daddy_fizz said:
as i have been reading more and more about this (as i look into purchasing 17" for my mini) this seems as if it would apply more for larger trucks/SUV's that are having a drastic change in tire size. for a mini cooper going from 15 to 17 (and say 205/40 instead of 205/45) the difference from stock size is going to be very small and will only set your speedo off by 2 mph at 60 mph, hadly enough i would think to change the ABS or other systems drastically....

~fizz

Tire size changes have no effect on your ABS. As long as all the tires are the same size on the same axle.

RickB

· #15 · Feb 7, 2005

This reminds me of a long-ago episode of the Tonight Show; Johnny Carson (RIP) was reading want-ads from a Los Angeles area newspaper; one ad described a car as having "black hat (vinyl top) and new skins (tires)", while another ad hyped a car with "vinyl top (black hat) and new tires (skins)"; I suppose it all depends on where, and perhaps when, you're from?

Fizzle

· #16 · Feb 8, 2005

i put my old 17's side by side with my 18's n they were the same size overall, with the tyres on obviously. think it may have a greater affect when u change from 17's to 27's on ur h2 tho!!

KJ_daGreenMini

· #17 · Feb 8, 2005

Hmmmm said:
pmsl - www.dubmagazine.com

For Chavs with more cash.... There are lots of things that money can buy - class and taste are obviously not for sale!

Good edmunds article though.

how many chavs do you know can buy 20 grand rims? *sigh*

alot of the cars at SEMA this year were rolling on 20's and more. If they are chavs then i'd hate to think what we are.

RallyMINI

· #18 · Feb 15, 2005

"This is not altogether true. The antilock and stability systems do moniter speed, but they moniter all four wheels... what matters is that rapid change. Even if you have different size tires on different locations on the car, when you push that little button to reset the system, it calibrates to the diameter of each wheel."

As you said, this too is not altogether true...

You are correct in that ABS uses differences in wheel speed to apply the correct braking forces, but systems like dynamic stability control have built in parameters that assume a certain momentum for a given wheel speed. If the vehicles wheels are 20% larger than they used to be, then for a given wheel speed, you are carrying 44% more energy ( kinetic energy is 1/2*mass*(velocity^2)).

Thus the braking schemes that the DSC uses won't work nearly as well because it won't be applying enough braking torque to really reign in the vehicle.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to get large enough wheels on a MINI to really affect it in this way...

my$0.02
RMout

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