MINI Cooper Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
Had my car health checked today by ThinkMini and I am so glad that I did. I will post a separate report on the health check findings and my thoughts on ThinkMini…. however it is fare to say that I could not be happier with the service and advice received. :biggrin:


Now onto the findings…..

My car is 2003 MCS which has covered 63,000 miles. I have had the car from new and had the BBR 220 conversion fitted approximately 4 years ago. For those who do not know the conversion consist of :

1) Installation of BBR Star*Chip EVO-2 Software
2. Installation of BBR Supercharger drive pulley ( 19% reduction )
3. Installation of BBR / Cosworth drive belt idler
4. Changes to the boost and intercooling delivery systems

In addition the car also had a GRS intercooler, Milltek Exhaust Manifold and Denso Iridium plugs fitted by Lohen over the past 12 months. Car uses stock injectors and BP 97 Ron fuel.

The results

Compression Tests
Cylinder 1 160 psi
Cylinder 2 165 psi
Cylinder 3 175 psi
Cylinder 4 185 psi


Air Intake Temperature averaged over three runs - ambient air temp was around 19 Degree c
Tickover 37 Degree C
5000 RPM 40 Degree C
6000 RPM 48 Degree C
7000 RPM 48 Degree C


Air To Fuel

....................2000.....3000....4000....5000. ...6000....7000
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd Gear :............................11.7.....11.8.....11. 8....11.5
3rd Gear :..................12.5....12.2.....11.8.....11.8 ....10.9
4th Gear :......13.2.....12.8....11.9.....11.8
5th Gear :......13.4.....12.0....11.8


Water Temp
Lowest Reading was 90 and maximum was 97


Boost ( Absolute)
Recorded at 31.8 ( approx 17 - 18 boost presure )

Dave ( ThinkMini ) commented that the BBR map was one of the best he has seen also that the car was driving very well.

Hope this information proves valuable and shows that a 19% reduction pulley car can be reliable, safe and fast. Also proves what a great job BBR did when the created their 220 conversion.

Any questions please shout.... [ Dave do you want to add anything else ? ]

Cheers

Perm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
this will leave me doing some head scratching....(actually it'll be paul at 1320 doing the head scratching...)

the differences between my car and perm's car are:-

bbr head as a pose to stock head
bbr cam
gp intercooler as a pose to grs
jcw 380cc injectors
jcw airbox


my boost is slightly higher - 19-20psi
...my AITs hitting 69c?????
they may be high because of problems in my exhaust(front silencer rattling?impeding flow) and running a GP intercooler - GRS will arrive this week and exhaust will be sorted this week. paul's going to take the car out for a drive once those two things are done. my injectors are only slightly bigger....so shouldn't affect the bbr map????
interesting that dave has said it's the best map he's seen and chris at 1320 has said it's one of the worst he's seen???? i'm a little confused!.....

i'm glad perm's got a great car there....makes me even more determined to keep my 19% pulley and get my car sorted....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
I hope this means people will now give the BBR220 conversion the credit is is due?
I don't understand why BBR have been given such a hard time over their conversions in the past - can anyone enlighten me?
 

·
Overly excited!!
Joined
·
1,364 Posts
I hope this means people will now give the BBR220 conversion the credit is is due?
I don't understand why BBR have been given such a hard time over their conversions in the past - can anyone enlighten me?
Probably because no one on here has seen them working, or the owners of them keep very quiet. They just seem very rare in comparison with the more popular choices.
 

·
Turbo Schmurbo...
Joined
·
822 Posts
The problematic one was a 250 conversion, its easy and not as risky when all your changing is the pulley, software and intercooler. When you starting tuning a car properly (i.e head, cam etc) thats when things get tough and show up the not so great conversions.
 

·
Is over to the dark side
Joined
·
515 Posts
I had my Focus ST tuned by Morego, who carry out BBR conversions in Brackley, with the BBR280 conversion. Complete transformation.

Their conversions are normally quite expensive, which i think annoys people, but from speaking with Neil at Morego they do tend to use expensive parts to provide longevity and quality. For instance, their ST350 conversion uses a bespoke manifold for the Focus ST. Plus side is it's designed and configured specifically for the car but the downside is that comes at a price. They don't have the ability to drive the costs down through large volumes sales like a massive manufacturer such as Ford or Mini. As a result they're ST350 conversion costs around £9K!!!

I know also that they don't like to come on forums such as this. They weren't on the Focusstoc forum when I was on it and people felt that they weren't interested in business. As we see on here, the vendors that come on and promote their products and share their expertise enhances their reputation with owners. However, as we all know there are often disputes regarding what's the best conversion, what parts a waste of money and just generally everyone putting in their 2p worth. Annoys some vendors and sometimes i can't blame them.

Great company though and have recently moved to new premises...although it's literally next door.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lets not forget. BBR has some serious experience in tuning cars….

They produced the BBR220 MINI conversion which EVO gave 4 stars... rave reviews
MINI Cooper S | evo Car Reviews | Car Reviews | evo
BBR MINI Cooper S 220 | First Drives | Car Reviews | Auto Express

Paul from MINI2 wrote a rave review about his BBR220 MINI.
http://www.mini2.com/2003/11/10/bbr-gti-220-240-bhp-cooper-s-conversion-reviews/

They got a rave review from EVO when they did the Big MINI Shootout ( Review of over 10 different tuned car all raced on the same day ).

They produced the BBR275 conversion which was driven on Top Gear, again rave reviews.

They produced the BBR MINI Turbo conversion again rave reviews.
MINI Cooper S | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | evo
MINI Cooper S | First Drives | Car Reviews | Auto Express

In short other tuning companies have always followed in the footsteps of BBR. They have released products years before other companies have produced similar conversions. BBR know a thing or two about getting the best from MINI. As MINI-Chris-GP says, they are not cheap... however their conversions work very well and have stood the test of time.

The main point of my thread was not to sing the praises of BBR, but to share my engine data and help others make informed choices.

Cheers

Perm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Sorry Perm, that was my fault that it went off topic.
Anyone else have any of the data presented by Perm for other conversion for comparison?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
I had my Focus ST tuned by Morego, who carry out BBR conversions in Brackley, with the BBR280 conversion. Complete transformation.

Their conversions are normally quite expensive, which i think annoys people, but from speaking with Neil at Morego they do tend to use expensive parts to provide longevity and quality. For instance, their ST350 conversion uses a bespoke manifold for the Focus ST. Plus side is it's designed and configured specifically for the car but the downside is that comes at a price. They don't have the ability to drive the costs down through large volumes sales like a massive manufacturer such as Ford or Mini. As a result they're ST350 conversion costs around £9K!!!

I know also that they don't like to come on forums such as this. They weren't on the Focusstoc forum when I was on it and people felt that they weren't interested in business. As we see on here, the vendors that come on and promote their products and share their expertise enhances their reputation with owners. However, as we all know there are often disputes regarding what's the best conversion, what parts a waste of money and just generally everyone putting in their 2p worth. Annoys some vendors and sometimes i can't blame them.

Great company though and have recently moved to new premises...although it's
literally next door.
*****
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
I had my Focus ST tuned by Morego, who carry out BBR conversions in Brackley, with the BBR280 conversion. Complete transformation.

Their conversions are normally quite expensive, which i think annoys people, but from speaking with Neil at Morego they do tend to use expensive parts to provide longevity and quality. For instance, their ST350 conversion uses a bespoke manifold for the Focus ST. Plus side is it's designed and configured specifically for the car but the downside is that comes at a price. They don't have the ability to drive the costs down through large volumes sales like a massive manufacturer such as Ford or Mini. As a result they're ST350 conversion costs around £9K!!!

I know also that they don't like to come on forums such as this. They weren't on the Focusstoc forum when I was on it and people felt that they weren't interested in business. As we see on here, the vendors that come on and promote their products and share their expertise enhances their reputation with owners. However, as we all know there are often disputes regarding what's the best conversion, what parts a waste of money and just generally everyone putting in their 2p worth. Annoys some vendors and sometimes i can't blame them.

Great company though and have recently moved to new premises...although it's literally next door.
you are not kidding about expensive:eek: they quoted me £8000 for there top s/c set up and that was with the standard i/c on the car and standard pistons:eek: as i thought they were trying to put je pistons in the car with out me asking for them.quite what the £8000 was for i have no idea i was not going to find ont any time soon.they seem to know what they are doing but what they quoted me for what they were doing just did not ad up.on a side i rung them about the turbo kit they said that they did not do it any more thats when they gave me the price for the s/c kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can not comment on conversions other the the BBR220 which I have and result are for all to see.

Sayanthan, you may be correct that the BBR240 conversion may have design problems..... I wait like others to see what the results and fix that 1320 come up with. However the BBR220 conversion does work.

As for the poor customer service from BBR..... well their is never an excuse for that. As said before not looking to be BBRs "press officer" just posting my findings.


Cheers

Perm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
I can not comment on conversions other the the BBR220 which I have and result are for all to see.

Sayanthan, you may be correct that the BBR240 conversion may have design problems..... I wait like others to see what the results and fix that 1320 come up with. However the BBR220 conversion does work.

As for the poor customer service from BBR..... well their is never an excuse for that. As said before not looking to be BBRs "press officer" just posting my findings.


Cheers

Perm
i'm not even convinced the bbr220 conversion works, remember, their conversion doesn't include an uprated intercooler, and the miltek catback is an extra. -the car will "feel" fine without these and you wouldn't necessarily notice anything wrong with your car perm, but if you had monitored AFR, AITs with a stock intercooler and a stock exhaust system, will the figures read as well. some cars might incur cylinder head probs as a result, others won't. as neil said to me as i told him about IAT temps going over 60c on my car on the dyno - "i had done untold damage to my car..."

the figures on your car perm did read well, but that's with the miltek and GRS IC freeing up your conversion. - remember temps were hitting 60c on yours on the third run (with 48c being the average?) - just think how high the temps would go with a stock intercooler and stock exhaust - this does not necessarily represent a safe conversion to me. I'm glad your car's running well perm. I also think you're very fortunate, partly i suspect because you never tracked thecar.- it's worth noting that neil asked me if i was interested in track days - a friend of his was organising one for german cars - so he fully expects his conversions to be fit for the track - and your conversion even now is not fit for the track if temps are hitting 60c and the car isn't being pushed that hard - lucky was assessing it primarily for road use!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,164 Posts
Well we may have some more data very soon, in the interest of finding out more I have fitted the 220 S with 20% a reduction pulley combo and the next time we get a 20 degree day I will repeat Perms tests on our car with a stock intercooler and exhaust.

I know its not a BBR car its a GTT car but it should be interesting to log before and after we fit an intercooler and then an exhaust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
Well we may have some more data very soon, in the interest of finding out more I have fitted the 220 S with 20% a reduction pulley combo and the next time we get a 20 degree day I will repeat Perms tests on our car with a stock intercooler and exhaust.

I know its not a BBR car its a GTT car but it should be interesting to log before and after we fit an intercooler and then an exhaust.
it would also be interesting to see what effect the bbr map would have on the readings as well. you can upload the map from my car if you want. has the gtt220 got stock injectors?
a 20 degree day would be ideal. i only noticed issues with my car in summer as it was sooo different!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,164 Posts
Yes stock injectors and stock map. Im in no hurry to remove the stock map as it would make all the other tests not much use to non BBR owners!

And yes its going out on the track at bedford soon, I dont see it being a problem, reving upto 7k does not mean much more speed than changing at 5-6K and it leaves you in the correct power band for the next gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sayanthan,
I think we will have to agree to disagree on the BBR 220 Conversion merits.
My car has only had the GRS intercooler and Milltek exhaust manifold over the past 8 months or so. The vast majority of the car mileage has been done with stock intercooler and stock manifold [ again all trouble free ].


Cheers

Perm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
Sayanthan,
I think we will have to agree to disagree on the BBR 220 Conversion merits.
My car has only had the GRS intercooler and Milltek exhaust manifold over the past 8 months or so. The vast majority of the car mileage has been done with stock intercooler and stock manifold [ again all trouble free ].


Cheers

Perm
hey,

that's fair enough perm, we can agree to disagree! :)
all i'm saying is that the conversion may have been trouble free for you and the performance of the car may have been fine, what we don't know is what your AITs and AFRs were running at. different cars have different tolerances and clearly yours is a good'un! the question is, if 100 cars had a BBR 220 conversion. how many would have had problems - we'll never know the answer to that question and can only speculate. however when a tuner designs a conversion, presumably they make allowances for the variation in tolerances of different vehicles. - and i wonder if this has been the case with BBR's supercharged conversions, that's all. does that sound reasonable? it'll be interesting to see how dave's 20% GTT220 fairs with a stock intercooler and exhaust. a dyno readout will be interesting too.

regards.
sy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
Sayanthan, how long ago was your car coverted? and how long have you owned it?
i've had the car for exactly one year. a brief history is as follows:-

20/7/07: purchased car from main dealer.october 2004 car, post 1st face lift. 27000 miles on clock. onr previous female owner. serviced as per recommended by mini, so one oilservice i think.

10/8/07: inspection 2+oilservice.

20/8/07: BBR stage 2 240 conversion. car mileage:28000miles

20/9/07: GP intercooler

sept07 - feb08: car felt fantastic

feb08: miltek front gaskets came loose - re-attached

march08-june08: noticed car became progressively less lively.

june08 - 3 episodes lasting 2 days each where engine sounded like a ford transit van for want of a better description. - discussed with neil at bbr - said as sounds had gone would not be worth making an assessment. on the third episode he agreed the car should be looked at but unfortunately there was a 2 week wait at bbr which clashed with my work commitments hence i went to 1320 in july. car was also exceeding the boost threshold more frequently,

july08 - oil service, ngk7 iridium spark plugs, coolant change, brake fluid change, exedy clutch/flywheel fitted ( old clutch v.worn),(at lohen; v.good service) jcw airbox fitted.

july08-present: car at 1320. car discussed with BBR:informed i had done untold damage dynoing the car.
present car mileage: 35000 miles approx.
car always run on tesco 99
i wouldn't describe myself as a "fast driver"
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top