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Discussion Starter #1
I wonder how the Cooper S will be priced now that Honda has put a sticker on it`s 197bhp, 146mph Civic Type-R?

£15,995 (6.8secs to 62mph) and available in October.

Today`s Autocar sums it up as looking `odd` but, for the manufacturers of affordable sporting family hatches, moves the game `beyond reach`!

And it, too, is built in the UK!

Where does all that leave the `S`?

It had better be very good and a bit of a bargain - we`ll just have to trust that BMW will `deliver`!
 

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Bring the noise
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The hard figures of the Type R are astonishing.It is one rapid car, powerful and well balanced.However it has all the visul appeal of a pair of Y fronts, and exudes the same amount of excitment as a trip to the dentist !
The S will have to be a great car on paper, but in the showroom there is only gonna be one winner.On the road I expect the S to be as competent if not more than the civic.Personally I admire Honda\'s move into \'sexy\' cars, but as Autocar says....it does look as though it has run headlong into an accessory shop !
If only the previous Civic Type Rs had made it here...
 

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Indecisive MINI Owner
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I don\'t think the Civic comes with a MINI Badge. I also don\'t think it has 40+ years of heritidge behind the name!
 

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MINI2 Sponsor & Moderator
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Is the Acura RSX-S going to wade ashore in the UK? This is the one to worry about. It is based on the Honda Civic with 200 hp.

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2001/August/200108_roadtest_acurarsx.xml

No armrest either! ;)
 

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Bring the noise
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Too true John...
Although Honda does have a motorsport history..including their latest addition to white smoke at F1 races this year !
The MINI has history you can\'t buy, well it has been bought..but y\'know whadda I mean !?
When I went out looking at cars a couple of years back I was gonna buy a mini even before I sat in one.I went and tried a KA..which to be fair is a great car, we have one at home and it is a super car for chucking about.But as the Ford salesman said to me \'If you want a Mini, then you buy a Mini\' as even he agreed nothing gives you the same driving experience.So I went and bought one, and barely a day goes past without me glaring at it as tho\' it was the first day I got it !
I\'ve been stopped at numerous locations, had notes complimentary notes left under the wipers all from people who love my car ! Don\'t see that happening with the Civic !If you wanna mini then....
Just what is the average age of Honda customers these days ? is it down from 3 figures and into 2 yet ?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
On 25-07-2001 22:20 smartbomb wrote:
. . . . . Personally I admire Honda\'s move into \'sexy\' cars, but as Autocar says....it does look as though it has run headlong into an accessory shop ! . . . .
I agree with you (and Autocar) on all that - though I`d like to see one, especially in a darker colour before making a sensible judgement.

As it is . . . it don`t look TOO good does it smartbomb?

The S has got to be seen as a good, solid value, classy performance machine.

The signs, so far, are that it DOES look good!

Heritage an` all!
 

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Not to start any flame wars, I know about the history behind the cooper...that\'s why I\'m in line to get one (type S). But it looks like there will be a serious horsepower war when the MINI comes to the states. If you like rice, Nissan, Honda and Acura both have runners that claim near or 200 hp, they are easy and cheap to modify....you either like em or you don\'t. VW is bringing a 201 hp version of it\'s VR6 to the states in the late 2002 model year. It\'s going to be a tough decision on what to get if your looking for HP. I\'m hoping that the \"works\" will be available for the MINI S to get it close to 200 hp, that won\'t void a manu warrenty. Only time will tell.
 

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The biggest difference between the Cooper S and the Type-R will be torque and driveability. The Cooper Ss power/torque will be more accessable in everyday driving rather than having to wait for the Type-R wring its way to the VTEC zone. I\'ve got and Integra Type-R and it\'s all too easy to be caught off the powerband and get blown away by a competently driven rep-mobile.

Diet
 

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Bring the noise
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All that power makes great on-paper reading, but add in weight.I\'m not sure if the R is heavier than the S....but the S will be a scorcher for sure...can\'t get too excited about a 200 bhp VW....BMW bought MINI for the heritage and that\'s what you\'re buying into.....of course it has to be a great car..but even the mini classic was selling on the back of it\'s heritage 41 years on.I didn\'t buy my mini for performance, mpg, cupholders....I bought it cos it\'s a mini.
You wanna buy something from the land of the rising sun be my guest ...! The guy who is now buying a Merc who posted here....I mean if you want a MINI..just buy one....you want 200 bhp etc..shop around....drive the lot..but at the end of the day we are discussing the MINI...MINI makes a Cooper and a ONE not people carriers, off roaders and don\'t employ platform sharing...a la VW....buy a MINI.....come on ! It is a totally unique car, that can be compared on paper with other cars..but in the flesh....one winner...
 

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I hope this discussion wheter the MINI Cooper S is \"better\" than a certain model of Honda, Volkwagen,... is a big big joke!!! 8)7
 

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It sure is, to me, wldride. I\'d rather have a direct descendent of the 3 time Monte Carlo Rally winner, than a bolt-on civic or a NASCAR merry go round replica!
does anyone remember when beefed-up Cooper S\'s ruled the \"illegal\" races on Mulholland Dr, above Westwood & Hollywood,? that took real-life performance & handiling! as others have stated , I want a car thats fun to drive anywhere & everywhere & doesnt look like 10 others!
 

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Unfortunately, these guys are not joking. You have two distinct factions here. One who worships the Mini heritage and all that comes from it. The other are the buyers who like the style but are still comparing it to other cars for future purchase. The first will buy the MINI becasue it is a Mini. The other may or may not buy the car based on its attributes as compared to other cars. Hopefully, for MINI, the second group will select the MINI because the first group is not that big.

For $24000 for the \'S\', you have to expect to compared to other cars at or below the price in all areas, not just performance. However, the \'S\' is a performance version of the MINI so it will be compared to other performance version of like cars. And for the second, it better stack up!

HP is nothing without power-to-weight ratio. So look at the 0-60 times as a comparitive value not an actual. The \'S\' is close to the Type R\'s and such, but will it win the hearts of the second is yet to be seen.
 

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I personally wouldn\'t go too mad shouting about the \'S\' for the simple fact that we don\'t want every wide-boy in town to have one, with 19\" alloys, ironing board spoilers, etc, etc...! If someone doesn\'t respect the Mini name, then to hell with them, let them get their jap-crap, but as for me, I go for class. I want people to see my car and smile, not tut or cringe (Nova SRi / Escort XR3i drivers you know who you are!!!).
 

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Well, stated gominogo! Membership in the two groups, among us Yanks, at least , is probably in direct correlation to age & familiarity, to the orig Mini. I owned a 67 Morris Mini in 67 in Germany & loved it, dearly! The idea of weighing performance figures & choosing something else, over a MINI, ain\'t gonna happen, here!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
There`s a hell of a lot of `blinkered` views going on here for goodness sake!

This post was put here to generate some discussion, primarily about proposed Cooper S pricing - not for some to try and rubbish a new performance car from our UK friends in Swindon.

Not many S buyers here will be tempted by the Type-R for sure - but as ever freedom of choice rules OK!

Frankly, IMO we should all welcome such cars before the breed is finally Gatso`d and grid-locked into extinction here in the UK!

Still OK! though - chasing fluffy clouds across the Yorkshire Moors looking forward to fish`n`chips, washed down with a pint of `best`, in`t evening!

Eh? smartbomb! B)
 

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Too right Jakz ! Some guys are mising the point.....as I reckon the world is split into 2 groups...1 that believes the world is split into 2 groups and the other that beleives that it isn\'t !
Of course I\'ll be bumping into you at mini shows soon, you in your MINI, me in my mini ! And the rest of the population in the carpark shacked up in their Euroboxes !
As a recommendation the chippy in Buckingham ,and Brighton arer the best I\'ve come across !
 

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Well after reading some of the posts, I guess I\'m torn. As a newbie to the forum and a new enthusiast for the MINI. I\'ve been waiting for it\'s coming to the States since I first heard about it in a magazine. I guess there are two groups, camps whatever you may want to call it, lump we in where you see fit. As a fairly young guy, I can honestly say that I am intrigued by the MINI, as well as other competitors that will come before, during and after it\'s initial release (after all, driving, as well as cars, are my passion). As a young kid (college days I was a mechanic), I had the pleasure of working with British racing enthusiasts from Triumph, BSA bikes to a couple of mini\'s....yeah for the 85 + hp in my college friends \'67, it was cool to shove a 87 BMW K100 motor into it. I have test drove the RSX...yes it\'s fast, but it doesn\'t \"move me\". My Z is only 136 hp, she may not be a dragster, but on the open road and twisties...well, the car handles on rails...it still plenty fast to get a hefty speeding ticket. For me the biggest deciding factors will be price, performance and smiles per miles. Obviously the MINI does not have to be a 6 second car, but knowing that it won\'t be a slouch compared to my Z is a good thing. I guess it all comes down to the first test drive.
 

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I\'ll have to second (or third) GoMiniGo, too. The Mini really has no heritage in the U.S. Very few people have seen more than a few, and the Monte Carlo Rally isn\'t even a blip on the radar screens of American racing fans. The MINI has captured my attention because of the small size, and BMW engineering. The car has almost no connection whatsoever with the original Mini, so I don\'t see the \"heritage\" aspect, even if you are a Mini fan. It will be very interesting to see how the new, English-built Civic Si does in the U.S. market, compared to the Cooper S. Here, the Civic has a much greater \"heritage\" than the Mini. I\'ve been driving an \'87 Honda for two years, and while the car doesn\'t much stir the soul, it has required absolutely no maintenance, other than oil changes, in 20,000 miles. There is certainly a market for that kind of reliability, and in that area, the MINI is an unknown quantity. The MINI is the car that I think I want, but I don\'t have blinders on; until it\'s here, and I\'ve driven it, I might be lured away by any number of other cars (probably not the Civic, though). Let\'s hope the car lives up to our expectations. I\'m going to get my first look on Saturday, so here\'s my first chance to be wow\'d.
 

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Rick, I\'m definately in the \"1st camp\" a former owner of a \'67 morris Mini) and I do see a direct line of heritage between the MINI & mini, the transverse mounted engine, FWD, and wheels at the corners. True, some aspects of the orig Mini have been appximated in Honda Civics, and other small sporty hatchbacks, yet, from what I\'ve read here of MINI test drives, the feel of the orig Mini, as a driving experience, is there, in the new MINI, with the \"smiles per miles\", factor, very close
and frankly, i like the idea of having a car, based on one I owned & loved, 35 years ago. A few years ago, I almost bougt a Miata, mainly because it is a \"tribute\" to the mid to late 60\'s Lotus Elan ( or was it the Elite?) but my auto-heart remains Mini-true
 
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