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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi been looking at your website and was wondering which intercooler option offer which benifits

the alta version 2 looks stunning! is it and better than a GRS? and which pully is best coupled with each cooler, sorry for all the qustions but superchargers are totally new to me coming from a NA bmw background

thanks
 

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THE STICK
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Depends on what you want.

I run a reasonable tune based around a 15% pulley. I only have a JCW GP intercooler with the added air intake provided from a chav hat M7 bonnet scoop. This copes perfectly well on the road, even with quite spirited driving. its only if I go drag racing or get very very spirited that it would struggle. Once out in the open and cruising the temps drop away pretty quick so its quite effective.

I will however be swopping to a GRS or GTT unit in the next few months as I intend to do some track work again, as the GP will start to struggle a bit in those conditions, if i go round repetatively.

If you run a 17% I would suggest running a GTT or GRS almost from the beginning as the 17% does produce a fair bit of heat, however I have seen cars on GTT220 kits on stock ICs do fine in normal road use, but they do start to get a little hot and begin to loose out if you get really spirited.

I have been in cars with both GRS and GTT and have noted that both perform well. The GTT suffers a bit more from heat soak, due to its size and location, if your sitting still but it soon cools off once you get going. The GRS is a fab all rounder and usually you can find good prices as its quite popular.

Personally in the UK if you want a car with good power all year I'd not bother too much with anything over 17%, but there are cars here and the US california running very big reductions without major issues (manyu are high tuned cars with custom maps and oversize injectors to keep the engines running cool and safe)

The Alta units are a bit hit and miss TBH, I've not seen too many that do that well in testing. Avoid the front facing intake ICs as they are usually pap from what I have seen in testing and on the forums. They look like a cunning idea but don't really seem to deliver???!
 

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Guys,

When I find some minutes to tear away from running around, I will put a post up and have a chat with you all but for now - I would recommend the GRS,

See you all soon.

Cheers,

Andrey
 

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Depends on what you want.

I run a reasonable tune based around a 15% pulley. I only have a JCW GP intercooler with the added air intake provided from a chav hat M7 bonnet scoop. This copes perfectly well on the road, even with quite spirited driving. its only if I go drag racing or get very very spirited that it would struggle. Once out in the open and cruising the temps drop away pretty quick so its quite effective.

I will however be swopping to a GRS or GTT unit in the next few months as I intend to do some track work again, as the GP will start to struggle a bit in those conditions, if i go round repetatively.

If you run a 17% I would suggest running a GTT or GRS almost from the beginning as the 17% does produce a fair bit of heat, however I have seen cars on GTT220 kits on stock ICs do fine in normal road use, but they do start to get a little hot and begin to loose out if you get really spirited.

I have been in cars with both GRS and GTT and have noted that both perform well. The GTT suffers a bit more from heat soak, due to its size and location, if your sitting still but it soon cools off once you get going. The GRS is a fab all rounder and usually you can find good prices as its quite popular.

Personally in the UK if you want a car with good power all year I'd not bother too much with anything over 17%, but there are cars here and the US california running very big reductions without major issues (manyu are high tuned cars with custom maps and oversize injectors to keep the engines running cool and safe)

The Alta units are a bit hit and miss TBH, I've not seen too many that do that well in testing. Avoid the front facing intake ICs as they are usually pap from what I have seen in testing and on the forums. They look like a cunning idea but don't really seem to deliver???!
I know you think you're helping this guy but some of the stuff you're spouting is just plan misleading:

Front mounted intercoolers are more effective than a top mount in every aspect FACT. If you understand the way air flows across a core, low pressure sections and general aero theories you would see just how much better they are. They deliver 100%. The only thing more effective is a water-to-air setup but this is a hell of a lot more involved from an installation point of view.

Top mounted intercoolers are a massive compromise. Air flows across the core and not through it as effectively as you would think. The core suffers from heat soak on a grand scale the minute the car is stationary. Core size is smaller. Air feed aperture is smaller. So on and so fourth

I've had cars with all three. Road cars and a drag car with 600rwhp. This is by no means an 'I'm better than you post' but there are so many people offering mechanical opionions on this forum that will eventually influence someones purchase decision that are just plain wrong it bothers me.
 

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"I know you think you're helping this guy but some of the stuff you're spouting is just plan misleading:"

Ummm no?! ....Sorry max hooters but I am not talking about front mounted intercoolers ... I am on about items such as the Alta and M7 ones that are mounted on the top but use a small front facing fin section.

If you re-read my post you'll see that i'm talking about Alta units just prior and I say "front facing intake ICs" ... I didn't say Front Mounted IC... In fact I believe that Alta don't do an actual FMIC just a front facing TMIC... I am not sure of thier proper name but I have seen results that were quite poor posted on forums around the place for these sorts of front facing top mount ICs

A traditional front mount IC (as on a turbo conversion such asd the GTT one, or like the one GRS are developing are the way forward, if you dont need AC)
 

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"I know you think you're helping this guy but some of the stuff you're spouting is just plan misleading:"

Ummm no?! ....Sorry max hooters but I am not talking about front mounted intercoolers ... I am on about items such as the Alta and M7 ones that are mounted on the top but use a small front facing fin section.

If you re-read my post you'll see that i'm talking about Alta units just prior and I say "front facing intake ICs" ... I didn't say Front Mounted IC... In fact I believe that Alta don't do an actual FMIC just a front facing TMIC... I am not sure of thier proper name but I have seen results that were quite poor posted on forums around the place for these sorts of front facing top mount ICs

A traditional front mount IC (as on a turbo conversion such asd the GTT one, or like the one GRS are developing are the way forward, if you dont need AC)

Front facing is different to front mount? Hmm, ok then.

Both Alta and Forge make a FMIC:

Forge Motorsport | Alloy Fabrication

Alta Mini Performance - R56/55 Front Mounted Intercooler

Why would the front mount take away the A/C? Both the Alta and the Forge allow you to run A/C
 

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On the R53 MCS (supercharged version, which the original poster appears to have) the AC radiator tends to be in the way of fitting a FMIC... it was a problem faced by Roland at GTT when he did his 350T conversion. GRS have also got the same issue and have tried to find a way to do useable FMIC while retaining the AC rad, but its proved something that just can't be done while still providing a large enough IC and also giving the required performance in terms of pressure loss/retention etc. The Alta unit you osted is for an R56 turbo S... not the R53

Alta and M7 both used to, and still do as far as I am aware, make a TMIC which didn't use the same design principle as the stock MINI TMIC.

The GTT, GRS and several other brands such as Forge (and Alta) produce TMIC that while bigger than stock, and often more efficient, still use he same layout of rows of fins that sit paralell to the surface of the block like MINI use.

This is an example of an Alta TMIC (see picture in link) that uses the same principle as the MINi stock unit Alta Mini Performance - Intercooler Air Diverter Classic

Alta and M7 both had a TMIC which had rows that sat perpendicular to the top of the block. These were supposed to sit higher and thus air from the scoop went diretly into/through th fins instead of having to be scooped/turned downwards to flow through the fins (using a diverter/IC cover)

This is an example of a front facing top mount IC http://www.m7tuning.com/parts/product_info.php?cPath=7_1&products_id=5

These appear to have a sound principle .. direct air flowed steaight into an IC (similar to a FMIC but on amuch smaller scale) but they just don't ever seem to deliver the results...perhaps the reduction in cooling rows is still just too much to be compensated for by the increased air hitting them... its the only thing I can think of.

So yes FMICs are very different to front facing TMICs ;)

On the R56 you can fit a FMIC much easier.... You have to remember that when talking of ICs you need to consider if your on about R56 or R53 cars :D
 

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Sits back and waits to be vindicated ;)


..... just kidding :D

Just found out they are called DFICs - 'dirct flow' ICs ... I think if you want to know more about how these perform you'll need to peruse an american site such as NAM... they did a fir bit of testing on these rather fly looking TMICs

Just a bit off topic but has anyone got any results for how the aftermarket R56 FMICs are perforing against stock cars? Have you tried any tests yet Andrey?

PS.... There is a belief that amongst some that the GRS FMIC may infct due to its location provide you almost the same cooling as the W2A chargecooler that is mounted in the location of a standard TMIC..... we shall see. I think it could be close despite A2A being less efficient than W2A

As Lohen do GRS stuff, I'd have to say of all the TMICs that they stock the GRS is the best option like Andrey says.
 

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You learn something everyday.

Apologies for being an e-bully yesterday. Just one of those days. Doesn't give me licence to be an uppity little sh*t though.

All good reading in the end.

*EDIT*

I'm looking at either the Alta or the Forge for mine. I've had massive success with a W2A in the past but they are not that realistic for a daily driver. So much effort!

I'd suggest anything with a larger core than the standard R56 would do a better job. I was shocked at the size of the thing, almost a why bother IMO. Hopefully I'll have on in ASAP. Would like to get the car on a dyno before and after to see what change is made.
 

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:D Thats no worries mate, its all too easy to have one of those days and suddenly skim something and miss 1 tiny element that can make all the difference ;)

You should become the test mule for the R56 ICs mate, be good to see a result on the R56b ICs such as those we have seen done for the R53
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
so looks like grs is the way to go them, gonna trough a spanner in the works now.... whats the difference with the grs chargecooler?
 

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:D Thats no worries mate, its all too easy to have one of those days and suddenly skim something and miss 1 tiny element that can make all the difference ;)

You should become the test mule for the R56 ICs mate, be good to see a result on the R56b ICs such as those we have seen done for the R53
I might propose that to the kids at Lohen.

Do they have a dyno?
 

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No but Thinkmini do now I think... if you your south of Staffordshire, then they would be on your way home. Might be worth chatting to Andrey @ lohen and Dave at Thinkmini....both are site sponsers... or perhaps if you come from london or norfolk way then 1320 would not be miles out of your way on the way home?
 
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