[Furu]

Based on my car having a MTC intercooler, K&N panel and a 15% lightweight pulley installed whilst running a standard exhaust do you think it would be worth having a remap? Or perhaps a remap and injectors installed as well? Bare in mind it's an older car so what I've done so far has been good bang for the buck and that's my mantra with it really. I'm never going to go down the cams, aftermarket manifold and exhaust route simply because it will be too much cost for how long I predict I'll keep the car for. I've been trawling the search engines but no one has any solid evidence for it being worth it or not on a 15% pulley. I'd like to see some concrete dyno sheets if anyones got them if not I'll be the test dummy.

 

[mike1967]

done a 2003 cooper s jcw over a year ago put a fast road camshaft in it and decat that ran 233bhp at wheels think anymore it would of bent something,, yes remap on reduced pulley a must do job as it will run to lean and hurt the motor,, bigger injectors on a forged engine yep fine on factory internals waste of money cant really push it all the way,, money well spent is on a dyno rolling road and set to the car best results, can load the torque band up nicely,,

 

[Furu]

Cheers Mike, I'll have to get a remap booked in then. It would be wicked to do the whole lot, I bet they absolutely fly. Maybe on the next one.

 

[mike1967]

Cheers Mike, I'll have to get a remap booked in then. It would be wicked to do the whole lot, I bet they absolutely fly. Maybe on the next one.

yes they do go well after,, if you have deep pockets and spare 4k ish forging them as well and run two different size pulleys on crank and super charger will gain a lot more boost ie ss spins faster ,, would also fit arp head stubs with nuts etc and bigger injectors also a bigger inter cooler hanging out the front and rolling road time as well they get silly then,,
that stock engine one we done the owner said in the wet it got a bit in your face with manhole covers,, must admit i like the early super charged cars more than the gen two turbo cars much more fun to drive,

 

[JTownPBX]

A remap with a up rated supercharger would speak volumes.
It would be horsepower. And reliable.

 

[ExclusiveWorkshops]

worth it?

a map with a pulley is essential imo, people just don't bother, unfortunately some really poor advice tells people they don't need to get the cars tuned for these changes, mostly on the back of the cars running a bit rich from the factory which is a safety thing probably, this isn't enough really, partly because they might not be right at the top of the rpm scale, and in some areas they can be a bit too much, both can cost power. The other aspect is ignition timing, something rarely ever discussed and not part of the advice given as a result. People can see AFR on some dynos although it seems not all check it, they are less likely to be able to see 'knock' though, or the timing the ECU is trying to pull out to protect the engine, or that it can't pull enough. Even with temp clipping over 55c they won't be able to see how much is being taken out, but can see the over fuelling perhaps.

there are thousands of these cars probably running with pulleys and no maps so you might be inclined to think it's not an issue, that's up to you, but as for solid info it's out there, the car will run so much better tuned for the changes you're making,

any engine since time began that has had more air put through it has needed fuelling and timing adjustments to run optimally, ignoring this requirement can result in either short or long term damage as well as not realising the power potential, some are just happy with what they have as a comparison to stock, not realising the cars can be significantly better. Some owners run the cars on a dyno like this and talk about the numbers which can be artificially high, too much advance or weaker fuelling can show higher figures but at the expense of engine damage for some, also below the peak number area driveability can be worse than a car optimised for the changes even if having slightly less peak power as a result, sounds daft but these cars if custom tuned 'properly' can be quicker everywhere despite appearing to be down on power compared to an unmapped car. Mad huh?

you certainly won't be the first test dummy😂

your engine as it is will already be showing signs of pre-ignition, push it hard over 4.5k and pinking can become audible, 5-5.5k for some, over 5.5k for most, if you can't identify with it you can be in trouble if you keep pushing the car into it. This is where it leads, also increased events of burnt exhaust valves, accelerated big end bearing shell wear, not for everyone, but some. You might have seen some spares or repairs cars with failed bottom ends, when you ask questions of the owners you can discover they might have been running pulleys with no map.... amongst other things.


maybe ask yourself why the JCW with just an 11% pulley was mapped for it?

I wouldn't bother changing the cat back anyway, but a performance cam, even a milder option will do more for the engine as well as amplify the affect of any pulley. As it is you're cramming more air into an engine that has valves doing the same thing the same way, where a cam opens the valves sooner, faster, further, and for longer, and can only make much better use of the air you're sending in, it's a no brainer compared to the stock cam which is 'ok' but is the same cam as in a Mini One. Drive one of those and you'll see (or a Cooper) how the engines can run out of puff from 4.5k-5k for example, we only do better on our cars due to the map difference and forced induction, and it can be better, a lot better, budget being a factor as you've mentioned.

the camshaft is what will determine the engines characteristics more really, they can be affordably changed. If not wanting to map the car due to cost, personally I'd stick a stock pulley back on and run a cam instead, only my view. Just did that on one which without any tune showed 196hp with a milder cam option, drop in filter and a 4:1 manifold, about the same as a 15% would normally get, if mapped for it'd be better, as well as not having pulley induced additional intake air temp.

a cam and a map will be the best money you ever spent on the car, adding a manifold and simple drop in filter just makes them better still, a stock cat back can handle 250hp or more ;O) Use the money elsewhere imo.

MTC don't actually seal right on the exhaust side so you can end up with a boost leak, and they lose the stock diverter so air goes right over the top of them unless you've dealt with it somehow.

You don't need injectors at the moment.

In contrast to the above though I'd never run a larger crank pulley, it's not a solution imo. A front mount I/C will lose you pressure and power but you will keep what you're left with for longer when driven hard, you have to work out the difference in performance 'to you' and whether it's a benefit vs a bit of temp clipping on a custom mapped car that might not actually prove to be that detrimental.

Only my2p ;O)

 

[Furu]

worth it?

a map with a pulley is essential imo, people just don't bother, unfortunately some really poor advice tells people they don't need to get the cars tuned for these changes, mostly on the back of the cars running a bit rich from the factory which is a safety thing probably, this isn't enough really, partly because they might not be right at the top of the rpm scale, and in some areas they can be a bit too much, both can cost power. The other aspect is ignition timing, something rarely ever discussed and not part of the advice given as a result. People can see AFR on some dynos although it seems not all check it, they are less likely to be able to see 'knock' though, or the timing the ECU is trying to pull out to protect the engine, or that it can't pull enough. Even with temp clipping over 55c they won't be able to see how much is being taken out, but can see the over fuelling perhaps.

there are thousands of these cars probably running with pulleys and no maps so you might be inclined to think it's not an issue, that's up to you, but as for solid info it's out there, the car will run so much better tuned for the changes you're making,

any engine since time began that has had more air put through it has needed fuelling and timing adjustments to run optimally, ignoring this requirement can result in either short or long term damage as well as not realising the power potential, some are just happy with what they have as a comparison to stock, not realising the cars can be significantly better. Some owners run the cars on a dyno like this and talk about the numbers which can be artificially high, too much advance or weaker fuelling can show higher figures but at the expense of engine damage for some, also below the peak number area driveability can be worse than a car optimised for the changes even if having slightly less peak power as a result, sounds daft but these cars if custom tuned 'properly' can be quicker everywhere despite appearing to be down on power compared to an unmapped car. Mad huh?

you certainly won't be the first test dummy😂

your engine as it is will already be showing signs of pre-ignition, push it hard over 4.5k and pinking can become audible, 5-5.5k for some, over 5.5k for most, if you can't identify with it you can be in trouble if you keep pushing the car into it. This is where it leads, also increased events of burnt exhaust valves, accelerated big end bearing shell wear, not for everyone, but some. You might have seen some spares or repairs cars with failed bottom ends, when you ask questions of the owners you can discover they might have been running pulleys with no map.... amongst other things.
View attachment 280462

maybe ask yourself why the JCW with just an 11% pulley was mapped for it?

I wouldn't bother changing the cat back anyway, but a performance cam, even a milder option will do more for the engine as well as amplify the affect of any pulley. As it is you're cramming more air into an engine that has valves doing the same thing the same way, where a cam opens the valves sooner, faster, further, and for longer, and can only make much better use of the air you're sending in, it's a no brainer compared to the stock cam which is 'ok' but is the same cam as in a Mini One. Drive one of those and you'll see (or a Cooper) how the engines can run out of puff from 4.5k-5k for example, we only do better on our cars due to the map difference and forced induction, and it can be better, a lot better, budget being a factor as you've mentioned.

the camshaft is what will determine the engines characteristics more really, they can be affordably changed. If not wanting to map the car due to cost, personally I'd stick a stock pulley back on and run a cam instead, only my view. Just did that on one which without any tune showed 196hp with a milder cam option, drop in filter and a 4:1 manifold, about the same as a 15% would normally get, if mapped for it'd be better, as well as not having pulley induced additional intake air temp.

a cam and a map will be the best money you ever spent on the car, adding a manifold and simple drop in filter just makes them better still, a stock cat back can handle 250hp or more ;O) Use the money elsewhere imo.

MTC don't actually seal right on the exhaust side so you can end up with a boost leak, and they lose the stock diverter so air goes right over the top of them unless you've dealt with it somehow.

You don't need injectors at the moment.

In contrast to the above though I'd never run a larger crank pulley, it's not a solution imo. A front mount I/C will lose you pressure and power but you will keep what you're left with for longer when driven hard, you have to work out the difference in performance 'to you' and whether it's a benefit vs a bit of temp clipping on a custom mapped car that might not actually prove to be that detrimental.

Only my2p ;O)

View attachment 280463

View attachment 280464

Nice one mate thanks for the info, a map is next on the cards. After that I'll just be making sure I keep the car healthy!

 

[k3fus]

worth it?

a map with a pulley is essential imo, people just don't bother, unfortunately some really poor advice tells people they don't need to get the cars tuned for these changes, mostly on the back of the cars running a bit rich from the factory which is a safety thing probably, this isn't enough really, partly because they might not be right at the top of the rpm scale, and in some areas they can be a bit too much, both can cost power. The other aspect is ignition timing, something rarely ever discussed and not part of the advice given as a result. People can see AFR on some dynos although it seems not all check it, they are less likely to be able to see 'knock' though, or the timing the ECU is trying to pull out to protect the engine, or that it can't pull enough. Even with temp clipping over 55c they won't be able to see how much is being taken out, but can see the over fuelling perhaps.

there are thousands of these cars probably running with pulleys and no maps so you might be inclined to think it's not an issue, that's up to you, but as for solid info it's out there, the car will run so much better tuned for the changes you're making,

any engine since time began that has had more air put through it has needed fuelling and timing adjustments to run optimally, ignoring this requirement can result in either short or long term damage as well as not realising the power potential, some are just happy with what they have as a comparison to stock, not realising the cars can be significantly better. Some owners run the cars on a dyno like this and talk about the numbers which can be artificially high, too much advance or weaker fuelling can show higher figures but at the expense of engine damage for some, also below the peak number area driveability can be worse than a car optimised for the changes even if having slightly less peak power as a result, sounds daft but these cars if custom tuned 'properly' can be quicker everywhere despite appearing to be down on power compared to an unmapped car. Mad huh?

you certainly won't be the first test dummy😂

your engine as it is will already be showing signs of pre-ignition, push it hard over 4.5k and pinking can become audible, 5-5.5k for some, over 5.5k for most, if you can't identify with it you can be in trouble if you keep pushing the car into it. This is where it leads, also increased events of burnt exhaust valves, accelerated big end bearing shell wear, not for everyone, but some. You might have seen some spares or repairs cars with failed bottom ends, when you ask questions of the owners you can discover they might have been running pulleys with no map.... amongst other things.
View attachment 280462

maybe ask yourself why the JCW with just an 11% pulley was mapped for it?

I wouldn't bother changing the cat back anyway, but a performance cam, even a milder option will do more for the engine as well as amplify the affect of any pulley. As it is you're cramming more air into an engine that has valves doing the same thing the same way, where a cam opens the valves sooner, faster, further, and for longer, and can only make much better use of the air you're sending in, it's a no brainer compared to the stock cam which is 'ok' but is the same cam as in a Mini One. Drive one of those and you'll see (or a Cooper) how the engines can run out of puff from 4.5k-5k for example, we only do better on our cars due to the map difference and forced induction, and it can be better, a lot better, budget being a factor as you've mentioned.

the camshaft is what will determine the engines characteristics more really, they can be affordably changed. If not wanting to map the car due to cost, personally I'd stick a stock pulley back on and run a cam instead, only my view. Just did that on one which without any tune showed 196hp with a milder cam option, drop in filter and a 4:1 manifold, about the same as a 15% would normally get, if mapped for it'd be better, as well as not having pulley induced additional intake air temp.

a cam and a map will be the best money you ever spent on the car, adding a manifold and simple drop in filter just makes them better still, a stock cat back can handle 250hp or more ;O) Use the money elsewhere imo.

MTC don't actually seal right on the exhaust side so you can end up with a boost leak, and they lose the stock diverter so air goes right over the top of them unless you've dealt with it somehow.

You don't need injectors at the moment.

In contrast to the above though I'd never run a larger crank pulley, it's not a solution imo. A front mount I/C will lose you pressure and power but you will keep what you're left with for longer when driven hard, you have to work out the difference in performance 'to you' and whether it's a benefit vs a bit of temp clipping on a custom mapped car that might not actually prove to be that detrimental.

Only my2p ;O)

View attachment 280463

View attachment 280464

At last some good advice, very rare with tuning these cars.

My car has a cam, 17% pulley and a custom remap. It runs a standard intercooler and injectors as the common “upgrades” actually are not improvements at all.

It may not have the headline maximum outputs that people like to quote, but it’s midrange is very strong as are its safety margins.