[mike1967]

I have a 2011 Mini Cooper base- non turbo. I bought it with 72k miles, currently 103k miles. Engine runs fine, does not seem to have the timing chain death rattle I have seen in you tube videos.

Is this engine in the years that were considered part of the timing chain problems? I wasn't sure if they ended in 2010 (thought that was the last year for the recall) Or I should be concerned on my car? Other than the rattle can you inspect the chain via removing the valve cover? Anything else I should look for chain wise.

While I certainly have the skills to do the chain would prefer not to if I don't have to

timing chain went all way up to 2015 when bmw started using own engine, even then seeing a few with over 100k with same chain issues, same chain system on pre 2010 to post 2010 to 2015, same block same pistons same head ,, the post 2010 engines had piloted oil pump and moved the oil pressure switch to housing, and different vac pump few other little changes,, i got one in at moment going to fit a 2013 engine from a n16b16 in to a pre 2010 ie 2008 cooper , so 2008 gets a 2013 low miles engine

 

[mike1967]

So you are saying the timing chain issues continued up until 2015? So it is a safe bet to change out if I want to keep the car?

Seems like you are in the repair business? are there any things to be aware of if doing the chain? I'm very experienced home mechanic / restorer of classics , just my first mini



No smoking at the moment , although it will use 1.5-2 qts in 5-6k mile oil change interval


to both of you can you measure how much slack if valve cover is removed?

Thanks for your help

yes I repair these cars , have done for over 10 years now , the last 8 of those a lot of prince engines with chain and oil burning issues , not a if it goes that way its a when , all of these engines in uk with 60-70,000 miles on them chains were stretched badly , seen cars with 50k on chain snapped before , the cars that do better are the ones that do most of their mileage from same speed running these seem to do big miles before needing it doing, also oil , dont stick to the long life bmw service time span, 10k max 12 months max,
bmw use plastic flexi metal coated oil rings on pistons total crap, i've been changing them to 3 piece solid rings for many years now sorts out oil use,
timing chain fitting need a good lock tool , good chain kit i always fit a full kit with oil pump chains etc and all sprockets hubs ,, and stretch bolts and longer later tensioner , bare in mind all sprockets have no keyway or location , all are infinite and set by a stretch bolt

 

[mike1967]

not many people have a torque wrench that goes as low as 0.6nm for pre load tool, tighten as much as can with finger and thumb and will be ok,
much more involved than just the preload of chain , not seen one yet in uk with 80,000 miles on clock where chain was not stretched, worn, the sprockets wear as well, tell tail is where the tooth sit on top sprockets if one side of the square its due to wear ,

 

[mike1967]

Answered by flightops

 

[mike1967]

you need timing chain lock tools as all sprockets are infinite no key ways no marks etc , below link for kind of tool needed

Laser Tools 5149 Timing Tool Kit - for MINI Cooper, PSA

Laser Tools 5149 MINI and Peugeot have developed a pair of new engines; the N12 and N14 ranges incorporate the latest technologies to give the best...

www.lasertools.co.uk

below is the timing tools i have by far best around

Draper 16240 Chain Engine Locking Kit for BMW, MINI, Citroen & Peugeot

Draper 16240 Chain Engine Locking Kit (BMW, MINI, CITROEN, PEUGEOT)Used on the following Vehicles: BMW 3 Series 2012 - 2015 BMW 1 Series 2011 - 2016 Mini Clubman 2007 - 2

www.toolstop.co.uk

there are cheap china tolls that are rubbish for under £100 personally would not use them couple of degees out will cause a load of issues with running and lean outs

 

[mike1967]

I have the tool set what confused me was a thread on here where someone said they had an issue not indexing the two crank gears to each other so that the teeth on the sprocket for timing chain matched position to the teeth on the oil pump sprocket................... NA THAT JUST B/S , total rubbish someone who no idea has wrote, get it a lot where someone trys to do a job that they have no clue about i'm afraid then they make up comments that others believe, joys of Internet i'm afraid .
the cam sprockets can be set in any position on camshafts
its common for water pump pulley to break up and make noise like bottom end going

 

[mike1967]

on gen 1 engines the oil pump drive must be set to the crank correctly to get front cover to locate correctly , ie tritec engine not prince engines

 

[mike1967]

perfect thank you! that's why I asked I figured it didn't make sense and probably did not get the bolt stretched properly...

Yeah the pulley I replaced 4 yrs / 40 k miles with an OEM BMW one- do they really not last long ?

When I heard a noise I had checked that but until I had the motor mount above it off I could not see the damage

i use febi pulley for water pump as coating is better , if it keeps doing them then likely be the jockey wheel arm is failing and to much force on the pulleys

 

[mike1967]

@flightops and @mike1967 - gentlemen thanks for your help with this job. Got it completed yesterday, reset the vanos adaptations and the car runs great. engine doesn't have any abnormal valvetrain noise anymore. Glad I did the oil pump chain as well that was very loose, and the timing chain tension measurement is like 12 -13 mm less.

Its seems to have much more low end power now. Am I kidding myself of can these get so worn that the cams are retarded with out kicking a code? Its a non turbo automatic so no speed demon but it seems much more spirited when driving than before.

thanks again for your guidance.

yes they run retarded and spark angle gets to a point that ignition is before top dead centre, at that point it's pushing against itself , the ecu will take up some of the wear by adjusting vanos , more it wears the more it will lose power, also when reset adaptions get car hot then do a couple of revs to red line will teach adaptions better

 

[mike1967]

good to know I took it out for a good 25 min drive on country roads with the trans in manual sport so hitting red line repeatedly. I thought it was idling and running better when I came back form that so that must have done something post adaptation reset.

I was glad to see it make such a difference and the chain slop visibly different in both chains. Whole job including the valve seals, water pump pulley, oil pan and oil pump chain, the pcv hose that cracked etc took two pretty full weekends plus some evenings... the wife loves the little car so it makes it worth it

it takes me around 30 hours to refresh one if all goes well start to finish with all the after running and resets etc , 5 hours to strip it

 

[mike1967]

thats a complete out of car engine job? or timing chain? I assume you have done enough of these to do it blind folded...

I was a little worried as cyl 2 and to a lesser extent cyl3 leaked more compressed air when holding the valves up... I did soak the piston tops with Seafoam hopefully to get any carbon off the rings. Smoked like hell for about 10 minutes...

I was at the mini dealer Saturday morning getting a crank sprocket as I didn't realize it wasn't part of my kit... I wanted to ask what they get for timing chain and valve seals.

no thats block left in pistons out

 

[mike1967]

ok so you hone and rering with block in the car? I assume you can drop the crank for machining and or new bearings?

I'll see how much the seals reduce the oil consumption, which was about 2 qt in 5-6 k miles

Why would you machine the crank if it's just smoking , its either worn out from lack of oil pressure which in that case cheaper go find a good engine from a breaker and refresh it to fit better rings
if you aiming at total rebuild then yes engine and gearbox out, the cranks on these engines are very hard rarely wear unless oil starved and really dirty oil ,, they destroy camshafts and head before crank

 

[mike1967]

Sorry - no wasn't suggesting crank regrind/bearings would solve oil burning issues...

Ok that's what I didn't know - the crank and rods are usually ok.

So really the issue is generally with the rings only? So hone and do a ring job? Does a valve job generally need to be done. What rings do you recommend?

I bought this car with 74 k miles on it looked like it was fairly well taken care of, not really much oil deposits in the engine. Saw very little wear on the cams only some light marks on the 3 cam bearing surfaces.

yes hone , better rings I use FAI PR12-000 rings sets these are the best, I use fai stem seals , fai or elring head gasket same for bolts head, i ultra part full timing chain kit comes with all bolts and seals and oil pump chain etc, stick i a close u pic of bearings i'll give you my 2 pence worth

 

[mike1967]

will add if you can see grooves in the first journals on cylinder head where retang rings sit then hea dis for the bin and likely wont hold timing thuis happens on all pre 2009 engine as they use metal rings, later use a nylon carbon type ring and dont wear the journal,, IMPORTANT MUST POLISH THE SURFACES WHERE RINGS RUN WITH DREMEL AND METAL POLISH IS HOW I DO THEM ,, failure to do this will wear the nylon rings away more so on pre 2009 cars,

 

[mike1967]

Good to know what parts to use and that a rering can be done in the car.

I didnt take any pics of the cam bearings. I polished them with a fine cloth honestly didnt take much to polish them.

Again appreciate your help and guidance. While for a home mechanic I am very skilled I just dont have the experience with Minis. I am very happy with this project and it runs better and is much quieter with the exception of some valve train noise. Definitely seeing the stretch before and after on the timing and oil pump chain I know it was worth the work. I post a video maybe you can tell me if the valve train noise is lifter or valvetronic related. When I cleaned them the lifter moved a bit but were stiff not sure how freely they should move ??

Thanks

i've done a lot lost count , many i just refresh them and right from first start up they just run well, others can test me and faults around vanos and timing and ecu/electrical when have one like that you need to know what you have done inside the engine is totally correct or you end up second guessing your self, hence why i do every one same level same way same parts , so far anything that has been wonky was due to other things going on , i stand by i fix them all so far have done,

 

[mike1967]

water pump pulley coating or jockey wheel maybe near impossible to judge noises on a laptop

 

[mike1967]

i put lifter posts in vice and crush them out of oil, they should after engine heats up driven fir while find their own levels again unless worn out

 

[mike1967]

oil pressure switch is on front of engine on oil filter housing not very easy to gain access

 

[mike1967]

n16 and n18 both have ecu piloted oil pump pressure control,

 

[mike1967]

the n16 engines dont have metal retang rings they were all only carbon plastic ie better ones that dont wear the the head away , that said of been running low oil levels it will still hurt the camshafts and when do get oil light on idle when gets hot common outcome